GoJet (Trans States 2) will fly Aug 05

[millhouse21]

They filed for a certificate so they can fly 70 seaters in a new (non-union) carrier and avoid AAs scope. OBTW, it will also be useful to beat the pilots up a little. Here we go again...


http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf90/307576_web.pdf

 

[ThisistheDream]

What pilots will be working for this new company? Current TSA pilots or furloughed UAL? or new hires off the streets?? What happened to brand scope to prevetns this?

 

[millhouse21]

What pilots will be working for this new company? Current TSA pilots or furloughed UAL? or new hires off the streets?? What happened to brand scope to prevetns this?

A lot of Trans States pilots would like to know the answer to that. The official word from the company is that there will be "significant opportunities" for current employees at the new company. Can you say Freedom #2

 

[Dizel8]

Freedom #2 needs to be shut down ASAP!

 

[CHQ-FO]

Is there any way for you guys to require all pilots at the new airline to be from the Trans States seniority list?

 

[Beantown]

Can you say Freedom #2

WoW! This is exactly what happened at Mesa with Freedumb! When is your contract up? The only good news is that TSA flys emb's and this new airline will fly CRJs so transfering the current erjs at TSA over would cause a lot of expense. This was the major killer at Mesa. Not that Freedumb was getting Mesa's growth but that they were transfering Mesa's current planes to the nonunion Freedumb with the idea of shutting down Mesa. Good luck. I really mean it. -Bean

 

[GFunk20]

You'll need to make it one seniority list like CHQ/Republic, or else let the whip-saw start.

DANGEROUS.

 

[millhouse21]

Our contract is up in a couple years but it actually has language intended to prevent this sort of thing. I believe it says, among other things, "The company shall not start an alter ego carrier to avoid the provisions of this contract." Of course, no contract is worth the paper it's written on if one side is not acting in good faith. Their contention will be that this new airline is being started by Trans States Holdings, Inc and not Trans States Airlines. Whether it works or not is up to a judge I guess.

One other interesting thing is that they (mgmt) refuse to say they will not transfer any 50 seat flying to the new company. Their only response is that there is no reason to do so. Not very reassuring.

So, all you CFIs need to send your resumes in NOW. Who knows, maybe you could be #1 on the seniority list at GoJet and fly CRJ700s for $35 per hour. Oh and just so everybody knows, that was a lame attempt at a joke. I don't think they are hiring yet and I don't know where you should send resumes.

 

[flyer172r]

So, all you CFIs need to send your resumes in NOW. Who knows, maybe you could be #1 on the seniority list at GoJet and fly CRJ700s for $35 per hour. Oh and just so everybody knows, that was a lame attempt at a joke. I don't think they are hiring yet and I don't know where you should send resumes.

How about nobody send in any resumes, so this Freedom reincarnation goes down the crapper where it belongs.

Oh wait, too many people desperate for a job so that won't happen. And yes, I am one of those desperate people, but you won't see me on a GoJet seniority list.

 

[BoilerUP]

Me neither. I have good friends at TSA...I'd like to keep it that way.


Good luck guys and gals, I'm afraid that you may need it.

 

[nimtz]

Hulas is attempting to regain his rep as the biggest @sshole in aviation. Gotta feel for him cause he has been losing major ground to Johnny O in the last few years. Oh yeah CHQ suits don't worry you are on the list as well.

 

[cocknbull]

Another shady Deleware Corp.. MO. needs some tax money uncle Hulas. I did not know we operated 73 jet aircraft.(P.9) Maybe they counted the JETstream 41s as jets.

Thanks to the forward thinking of mainline United pilots GOAIR will have to vote on a union before it can operate as a United Express Carrier.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I pay my 1.95%. ALPA better fix this right away so I can go back to my TIVO and Playstation.... I don't care who does it....just fix it.... I just show up and fly my trips and go home....

I've never done an ALPA vote, filed a grievance, hotel report or scheduling form.....

If I need something done, I go on our ALPA message boards and post, the only problem is the ALPA guys never respond...

 

[j41driver]

Their contention will be that this new airline is being started by Trans States Holdings, Inc and not Trans States Airlines. Whether it works or not is up to a judge I guess.

Is your contract with Trans States Holdings, Inc. or with Trans States Airlines?

 

[j41driver]

I pay my 1.95%. ALPA better fix this right away so I can go back to my TIVO and Playstation.... I don't care who does it....just fix it.... I just show up and fly my trips and go home....

I've never done an ALPA vote, filed a grievance, hotel report or scheduling form.....

If I need something done, I go on our ALPA message boards and post, the only problem is the ALPA guys never respond...

You're kidding, right?

 

[rush]

Is your contract with Trans States Holdings, Inc. or with Trans States Airlines?

There is no TSA holdings in existence. It will be created to be a parent of TSA airlines and GO jet.It will be owned by the same person. We cannot have a contract with non existing entity.We cannot file a grievance against non existing entity. However the argument is why is the new entity is being created and is it falling under previously signed contract. If company wins, then all you have to do to abrogate the contract is create another level of management ( with the same people) and call it a different airline. In theory any airline would be in danger. It would be impossible to prevent it with contract language. They would just create whatever it takes to avoid it. TSA airlines has a strong scope language, will it apply to parent company is for the court to decide.

 

[cocknbull]

Is your contract with Trans States Holdings, Inc. or with Trans States Airlines?

Trans States Airlinres, INC.

Section 1, sub part C, sub paragraph 1

The Company shall not create or acquire an alter ego to avoid the terms and conditions of the Agreement.

Any grievance of this matter will be expedited as per sub part E. Remedy. The dispute will be heard within 15 days of the system board adjustment; with a decision made within 30 days.

No 2 or 3 year grievance on this issue.

 

[Black Water Dog]

Hulas is attempting to regain his rep as the biggest @sshole in aviation. Gotta feel for him cause he has been losing major ground to Johnny O in the last few years. Oh yeah CHQ suits don't worry you are on the list as well.

Lets see - last strike vote at TSA was ... 100%?

 

[acaTerry]

Well, I have only been here for 6 months, and I am impressed with the pilot group here....in fact they seem more unified than the guys I worked with at ACA (absolutely no insult meant in that----I still love you guys at ACA, in a nonfagg manner, of course).
I think the TSA bunch has been drilled enough and are firm and unified to fight this thing off. To quote more than one guy I've flown with: "I don't care if we bankrupt the company...this BS has to stop".
Let's hope that everyone can put their money where their mouth is...someone has to fight back. Please, those of you who want to play the poor-management can't afford it BS....be quiet. They can.

 

[temcgrew]

Isn't that attitude kind of reckless? After all weve been thru in the past few years, do we really need to try and bankrupt an existing company that is doing well? The only way for growth for the company and stability is going into the 70-90 seat market. How else can they do this without starting another company?

I thought tsa's unions advice was to not "PRE-JUDGE" right now and wait for the details to come out.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

Isn't that attitude kind of reckless? After all weve been thru in the past few years, do we really need to try and bankrupt an existing company that is doing well? The only way for growth for the company and stability is going into the 70-90 seat market. How else can they do this without starting another company?

I thought tsa's unions advice was to not "PRE-JUDGE" right now and wait for the details to come out.

Another member of airline management pretending to be a pilot roaming the flightinfo boards.

 

[nimtz]

I thought tsa's unions advice was to not "PRE-JUDGE" right now and wait for the details to come out.

YEAH BUDDY! After Freedom and Republic before this, I'm sure Hulas has the interests of all parties concerned. Oh and don't forget Hulas has proven to be a cheap @sshole in the past even before 9/11. Anybody with any knowledge of this business should consider you an idiot for even trying to see management's 'great opportunities' agruement. Please stay away from airliners. Freedom picked up enough our of your type back in '03.

 

[RoughAir]

This sounds exactly like Boston Maine Airways vs Pan AM in PSM, NH.

By the way, the US Court of Appeals (Boston) heard that case last tuesday, a decision is expected in a month or less. A link is below.

ALPA is contending that BMA is an alter-ego carrier just formed to put Pan Am out of business and their union so that BMA can take over the flying.

If Boston Maine wins I can see Go-Jet using this case to argue any legal action that the pilot group of Trans States or their union (?) may bring against Go-Jet.

http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/12082004/news/52716.htm

 

[acaTerry]

I was all set tp posta reply, but you guys beat me to it. Thanks for supporting your local Waterskiers.

Ah what the heck....
Quote: "I thought tsa's unions advice was to not "PRE-JUDGE" right now and wait for the details to come out."

Thats exactly what got us into the position of being one of the lowest paid regionals...and the 2 year extension letter, etc. Putting good faith requires BOTH parties to be working in good faith. Uncle Hulie can give a krap about his pilots.

 

[temcgrew]

So are you saying that you cannot trust the union? They are, in fact, the ones that extended the contract without anyone knowing about it.

NIMTZ, you have no clue who I am, just that my statement came out in opposition to yours. My type? is that all you can say to me? Sure label me as A "FREEDOM" type, thats really intelligent. Do you have a copy of my resume? Do you know anything of how I feel towards companies that take advantage of it's employees. Everyone that is getting into a tizy about what is going on right now is showing how ignorant they are. and YOU are showing how ignorant YOU are by attacking me and the only thing you know about me is a few sentances that I posted here.

FLY2SCUBA,
I'm not a management type, I am just a guy who already lost a job in the past few years and I know many more who have been thru 2 jobs in the past few years. what kind of attitude is it to say,

"I don't care if we bankrupt the company...this BS has to stop"

There are over 700 pilots at Trans States right now, including myself.
I think it would be BS, if a few angry, bitter individuals like those who extended our contract let a profitable airline go down the crapper and put 700 guys on the street all becouse of there own egos!!

I know hulas doesn't care about his pilot, we are not HIS, we do work for him and he pays us for the work we do. I really don't care to much about him. I do a job and I get paid for it. that is all I care about. I can pay the bills and not have to declare bankruptcy. I like my job and most important I NEED MY JOB at this time in my life. those of you with the attitude of BANKRUPTING the company need to quit before I loose my job and you end up getting a BOOT-ECTAMY!

 

[temcgrew]

THe pilot group did not get to vote on the extension. Funny how this world works. THe person that represents the pilots is thinking about number 1 only.

Exactly, doesn't he own a small trucking company that has attempted to get a union on the property several times? Obviously, he doesn't want his drivers to unionize and get what they are worth out of his blood-sucking company.

 

[acaTerry]

[/QUOTE] I like my job and most important I NEED MY JOB at this time in my life. those of you with the attitude of BANKRUPTING the company need to quit before I loose my job and you end up getting a BOOT-ECTAMY![/QUOTE]


First, you will not "loose" your job. You may "lose" it for a while and (oh, God frobid) have to work at something else until it comes back (show me one airline pilot who lost his job during a strike and did not get either the same one back or a job at another carrier and I'll show you over 100 that did).
Hulie will not lose the foot for the sake of the toe. He's not stupid.
Fact is, if we are afraid of working for something better to the point of letting ourselves be paid sub-poverty level wages, its time to step aside and let those with guts to have the guts to fight it. I am so tired of being told "if I don't like it, then quit". No way, man. I love it, but I fail to see why the fearful few want to stop the many who are willing to fight. Or why someone with 19 years of flying experience flying a 22 million dollar jet is worth $1100 a month. In this airline industry, annual management bonus exceeds 2 year pay for many FO's.
Last I checked, at TSA it is not a disgruntled few as you said. Hard to explain how 100% strike vote constitutes a few.
If you are so scared of losing your job, get out of the airlines. If you make a career in this, it is only a matter of time that you lose it one way or the other. I do not know one single person who retired from the airlines and was not out of work at least once. And at the same time, I do not know one pilot who regrets having struck.

 

[Rotorhead]

December only has 788 hrs in it.

Actually it is worse than you think.........744 hours. Thank you for the perspective. I had never considered TAFB in those terms. Now I really hate my job.........

 

[I.P. Freley]

Fact is, if we are afraid of working for something better to the point of letting ourselves be paid sub-poverty level wages...

I fail to see why the fearful few want to stop the many who are willing to fight. Or why someone with 19 years of flying experience flying a 22 million dollar jet is worth $1100 a month.

Okay, I'll ask... Who, exactly, is paying $1100/mo to fly a jet?

Even CommutAir 1900 FO's make $1500/mo at minimum guarantee, and guarantee for a pilot at TSA is hihger still (and we all know that most people exceed guarantee at least a couple of months per year).

BTW, "poverty level" for a single person is around $750/mo. I understand your point about "not being paid what we're worth", but don't get carried away with your hyperbole. Someone making $1500/mo is only sub-poverty level if that person is supporting a family of six on that pay.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Even using the specious "the Guvmint takes some of my money, and so does Hulas for his cruddy health plan, so I don't really make as much as you think I do" argument (and who among us COULDN'T use that formula?), $661/wk still equates to $1432/mo... This is a full car payment more than "$1100/mo".

Again, just asking we keep our exaggerations in check.