German AF training in TX

[wmudriver]

I'm based out of El Paso, TX flying freight for a living. I saw a German Tornado doing a practice approach at ELP and was wondering where they are flying out of. I see them every few days it seems like. I know Holloman and Dysse in Abeiline are nearby or if they flew out of Biggs AAF?
Thanks

 

[Mud Eagle]

Holloman

 

[Weasel Keeper]

Holloman AFB, NM has the USAF 20FS who train German pilots and EWOs on Tornados and F-4Fs (German version of the F-4E).

 

[JECKEL]

I was stationed at Ft. Bliss in El Paso, TX from 1994 to 1996. Ft. Bliss is home to the Army's Air Defense Artillery. It is also home to the German Air Force quivalent.
A thousand or so German Air Force personnel are stationed at Ft. Bliss as permanent party. There is German family housing and even a German Officer's Club which seemed to draw more Army guys than German. Great place!

 

[talondriver]

I hear Oktoberfest in Alamogordo, NM is worth a cross country "training sortie" or four.

 

[KC-10 Driver]

Actually, Holloman has an actual German Air Force training squadron based there. It is not a USAF squadron with German exchange pilots. It is a German unit, with German personnel and a German commander.

Someone correct me if the facts have changed. But, this was true as of a couple of years ago.

I guess the Germans realized that they could get much better training in the western U.S. than in Germany -- considering the airspace restrictions that they would face at home. It is certainly worth whatever price they pay to us to use our base and airspace.

Now, I'm just waiting for the inevitable post talking about the black U.N. helicopters, and the fact that we are giving away sovereignty to foreigners.

 

[Weasel Keeper]

I'll get back to you, but as of a year ago the USAF was training Germans on at least the F-4Fs...not quite sure about Tornados since we don't operate them. You are right that the Germans have their own chain of command...I met the CINC at the AF Museum in Dayton a couple years ago...along with my AF buddy from the 20FS Silver Lobos who was helping to ferry a couple F-4Fs from Germany to Holloman.

I do know that the 20FS IS a USAF training squadron with German exchange pilots...but like I said that might just be on the mighty Phantoms. I'll fire off an email to my friend to see what he says and get back to you. My buddy is a LtCol who was training German EWOs on F-4Fs up until a year ago.

 

[talondriver]

Actually, Holloman has an actual German Air Force training squadron based there. It is not a USAF squadron with German exchange pilots. It is a German unit, with German personnel and a German commander.

the squadron has both USAF and GAF instructors.

 

[HueyPilot]

Luftwaffe

When I flew to Holloman a year ago or so in the C-21, there were both F-4Fs and Tornados on the ramp (or under sunshades, actually).