Furlough Protection, on the cheap

[AceCrackshot]

I was just wondering what you all thought of one of my zany, crackpot ideas.

In future contracts, we should require the company to type rate all pilots, not just the captains. Since type rated pilots cost more to train than non-rated pilots (or so the company says, I'm not so sure) there would be less incentive to furlough. This is due to anticipated loss return due to type rated pilots being slightly more marketable than non-type rated pilots. Perhaps we could sell the safety/insurance benefits that could accrue due to having two "captain-qualified" pilots. It would also shrink the pilot pool due to the flight time requirements to receive a type in the sim (these regs still exist, don't they?)

Just a thought.

 

[RUhiring?]

Good example:

US Airways. All pilots off of probation can be type rated on their next initial class.

1879 pilots on furlough.

Doesn't make a bit of difference.

Also doesn't cost them a dime extra.

 

[JudgeSmails218]

Same deal at Continental as well; their FO's are typed and they have 600+ on furlough/back at Coex. Doesn't make a bit of difference to mgmt. whether they're typed or not.

 

[91100 100 set]

Typing guys in the airplane makes them much more attractive to other companies. So let's type all the FO's so they can leave for greener pastures. Example: All the USairways APL guys getting the 170 training at MDA, then getting scooped up at JetBlue.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

With the exception of Southwest I'm not sure how impressive a type rating with no PIC time is. I think the PIC time carries far more weight than a type rating by itself. The problem with negotiating the type rating into your contract is that you will have to give something else up in return. That's always part of the negotiation process. So what are you willing to give up in exchange for the type rating?

 

[AceCrackshot]

Well Dave, that was the unspoken part of my question...

If its a no cost item to the company, and quite honestly is industry standard in every other ICAO nation, why aren't FO's typed?

I'm tired of FO's working for the same training that would get some else typed. This is something COEX should shoot for.

Plus, I feel the tit for tat bargaining position, or what are you willing to give up, is counterproductive for both sides. You prove to to me that I'm costing the company money...if I can prove that it saves money or is no cost to the company, then you have to justify why I'm not getting it. Ditto with pay rates. Prove the difference that my FO or CAPT pay increase causes the company in real, end of the year dollars, especially in comparison with back office personnel, with their assumed year-end pay increases, and I'll figure what what you can afford.

If you don't trust me, then I shouldn't be flying your airplanes.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Hey relax I'm on your side. Your response almost sounds like it's written to a management type and I'm just another line pilot.

First of all the ICAO comparison is incomplete. If we want to copy ICAO nations I'm not worried about FO's geting typed. I want the 6 weeks paid vacation like many of our European friends enjoy. I'll take their pensions as well. Not too many of our European colleagues will be working at WalMart when they retire just so they can maintain health benefits and make enough money to pay the light bill and stock the fridge with something besides Bud.

Typing FO's would not cost the airlines much more money. However it's a benefit and most management negotiators will never give benefits away for free. You can wave the safety flag but I don't think too many people will buy that. The type ride isn't that much different than an FO qual and I'm not convinced that an FO is a safer pilot because he was able to demonstrate a few extra maneuvers once.

I'm still unconvinced that a type rating by itself is not going to give you that much of an advantage getting hired in a period of time when thousands of pilots are furloughed.

Trying to get FO's typed might be a good fight but it may not be one worth actually fighting.