Full Back Pay At Spirit?

[limpyoke]

Is ALPA going for full back pay?

 

[troll565]

Is ALPA going for full back pay?

back pay for what?

 

[flyboycmsu]

If we're around Jan 1

 

[Mike man]

The decision does not have to be made until the middle of February (on either issue)...it could be sooner, however I would not expect it.

My understanding is that it will be JA pay for folks that worked on days with less than the 4 off...I don't think we can win the door/wheel roll case.

 

[600rvr]

What's happening with the 4 day arbitration? I vaguely understood that some sort of decision was due in December... February you say?

 

[kwick]

The rumour is Jet Blue going out of business Jan 1. and Spirit getting 20 aircraft from Spanair to take over their routes.

Again, just a rumour, from a FT. Lauderdale Jet Blue pilot.

Straight from their FLL chief pilot, from what's been posted.

 

[flyboycmsu]

He must be the same guy that I am getting my intel from! Ironic.

 

[limpyoke]

1. Full back pay when signing a new contract.
2. JA pay for the 5 day off case.
3. Full back pay for the wheel roll case.

 

[boomlrd]

How about full back pay for people actually furloughed due to the fact they could schedule the remaining pilots with less days off. I would love to pay down some credit cards due to no job for 3 months and living off Ramen noodles.

 

[viper01]

The rumour is Jet Blue going out of business Jan 1. and Spirit getting 20 aircraft from Spanair to take over their routes.

Again, just a rumour, from a FT. Lauderdale Jet Blue pilot.

Straight from their FLL chief pilot, from what's been posted.

I've heard it's the other way around.
P.S. I don't wish this on either company.

 

[flyboycmsu]

I've heard it's the other way around.
P.S. I don't wish this on either company.

So we made the largest operating profit (excluding SW) in the 2nd qtr of '08 (according to DOT) out of any LCC, yet we are going to shut our doors Jan. 1. I just cant see the revenue tanking that bad to offset fuel savings.
What do we know anyway...we're all worker bees

 

[troll565]

The rumour is Jet Blue going out of business Jan 1. and Spirit getting 20 aircraft from Spanair to take over their routes.

Again, just a rumour, from a FT. Lauderdale Jet Blue pilot.

Straight from their FLL chief pilot, from what's been posted.

actually it's only 10 from ClickAir!

 

[BrokenWing]

The rumour is Jet Blue going out of business Jan 1. and Spirit getting 20 aircraft from Spanair to take over their routes.

Again, just a rumour, from a FT. Lauderdale Jet Blue pilot.

Straight from their FLL chief pilot, from what's been posted.

Now that $hit is funny.

 

[troll565]

FLL-SKRG-FLL 3/1 and ACY-BOS-ACY 5/1

 

[crxpilot]

So we made the largest operating profit (excluding SW) in the 2nd qtr of '08 (according to DOT) out of any LCC, yet we are going to shut our doors Jan. 1. I just cant see the revenue tanking that bad to offset fuel savings.
What do we know anyway...we're all worker bees

Largest operating profit? I dont think so......


http://industry.bnet.com/travel/1000211/does-spirit-really-have-the-best-operating-margin-in-the-us/
Does Spirit Really Have the Best Operating Margin in the US?

By Brett Snyder
September 18th, 2008 @ 8:05 am
0 Comments
Second quarter DOT numbers are out, and I was extremely surprised to see that the airline with the best operating margin in the US during the quarter was . . . Spirit? The airline’s 13.5% margin is stellar, and while sources like ATW are taking it at face value, it just doesn’t sound right. Let’s dig in.
In Q2, Spirit’s operating revenues were $206 million, just slightly above the $204.5 million in Q1. So nothing surprising there, but now take a look at operating expenses. In Q2, expenses were $178 million, WAY down from the $206.5 million in Q1. Further down in Schedule B-12, we can see that the decrease came from flight operations - $107 million in Q2 vs $134 million in Q1. So where did that come from?
This required heading over to Schedule P-6, where we can see that the big decrease was in fuel costs. How weird. They paid about $59 million for fuel in Q2 and more than $86 million in Q1, according to the financial filings, but that doesn’t jive with the numbers in the Airline Fuel Cost and Consumption chart. Over there, it says they paid more than $106 million in Q2 vs around $83 million in Q1. So what gives?
Clearly, they reduced their fuel costs somehow via one time reductions that were rolled into the fuel line item, but it doesn’t reflect how the operation itself was performing. If we double up fuel costs, we can see that the airline lost money, just like many of its peers.

 

[clickclickboom]

They sold their hedges.... I think it was approximately 23 million in gains

Hindsight being 20/20 this was actually a great move since fuel has dumped.

But when fuel was high it was a desperate move to buy them some time.

 

[enigma]

Is ALPA going for full back pay?

For background to our non Spirit friends; our pilot contract contains language (although vague) that provides for off days to come in blocks of four. The company built lines with no less than four days off in a row for NINE years, but decided to reinterpret the language last August. They began writing lines with less than four days off and the union filed an arbitration. The ruling is due any day now.

I expect nothing more than a cease and desist. Heck, I'd be happy with nothing more than a c&d, because the 4 day off wording could easily be taken to be meaningless. If this arbitration accomplishes a clear definition of the 4 day off minimum, we WIN.

Think about this.....the Ford and Harrison lawyers are not stupid, and they were in on this "let's take away their 4 days off" plan from the beginning. They would not have allowed Mono to take this action if they had not been confident in their ability to win the legal battle. I'm afraid that the arbitration outcome is 50/50 and can only hope for the best. However, Ford and Harrisons misjudgement of our international definition, which resulted in them losing that arbitration, does give me some hope because it proves that they are not infallible.

If we lose, the pilots will end up begging for some sort of relief, and BBB will be happy to offer pref bid. I only wish we still had B R, J O and P H on the nego team, because they understood pref bid. The current union team only knows to oppose pref bid. I agree with their opposition, but I fear that pref bid is a certainty and I'd like to know that our guys understand it enought to avoid the pitfalls.

 

[gatorbird]

If we lose, the pilots will end up begging for some sort of relief, and BBB will be happy to offer pref bid. I only wish we still had B R, J O and P H on the nego team, because they understood pref bid. The current union team only knows to oppose pref bid. I agree with their opposition, but I fear that pref bid is a certainty and I'd like to know that our guys understand it enought to avoid the pitfalls.

Well said.

 

[huncowboy]

For background to our non Spirit friends; our pilot contract contains language (although vague) that provides for off days to come in blocks of four. The company built lines with no less than four days off in a row for NINE years, but decided to reinterpret the language last August. They began writing lines with less than four days off and the union filed an arbitration. The ruling is due any day now.

I expect nothing more than a cease and desist. Heck, I'd be happy with nothing more than a c&d, because the 4 day off wording could easily be taken to be meaningless. If this arbitration accomplishes a clear definition of the 4 day off minimum, we WIN.

Think about this.....the Ford and Harrison lawyers are not stupid, and they were in on this "let's take away their 4 days off" plan from the beginning. They would not have allowed Mono to take this action if they had not been confident in their ability to win the legal battle. I'm afraid that the arbitration outcome is 50/50 and can only hope for the best. However, Ford and Harrisons misjudgement of our international definition, which resulted in them losing that arbitration, does give me some hope because it proves that they are not infallible.

If we lose, the pilots will end up begging for some sort of relief, and BBB will be happy to offer pref bid. I only wish we still had B R, J O and P H on the nego team, because they understood pref bid. The current union team only knows to oppose pref bid. I agree with their opposition, but I fear that pref bid is a certainty and I'd like to know that our guys understand it enought to avoid the pitfalls.

Good post. This can go several ways. However, if they just push a pref bid that we have no control over down our throat, it will become a priority for the team to negotiate a stronger 4 days off (or 5 days) language back into the next contract. So we might lose it now, but may get it back again. This is especially true if the pref bid will not work well and leaves a bad taste in most pilot's mouth. Even a good pref bid will leave most pilots dissatisfied because of the steep learning curve and initially higher workload (so to say) to create an efficient bid. Many senior guys will get a crappy line even with a good PBS because they did not understand the “how to bid” part. It takes time even for computer savvy persons.

Either way, it is a blow for us if this arbitration is lost. Up until now we had the 4 days off as a tool that some thought could be given up in exchange for other things, like more pay. Now it will become the opposite. They can give our 4 days off back in exchange for what they want. And we know they don't want anything other than PBS so it won’t go for cheap when in reality I don’t think it is even worth that much. What was that estimate the MEC put out? 11 pilot positions saved? That is like 2-3% of the total. So in terms of saved payroll vs the cost of running and investing into PBS… I am not sure if this is really going to save that much money to the company. I mean right now they are designing the schedules as they wish. They will use this as a negotiation tool.

For that I think losing this arbitration could be a major blow and I don’t have a good feeling about the outcome.

 

[hockeypilot44]

Preferential bidding is worthless. It is just a way for management to manipulate schedules. If it was beneficial to pilots, every airline out there would not want it.