Frost

[Gulfstream 200]

Just an opinion:

If you find yourself needing to "polish" frost....just get deiced.

If you a wondering if you really need to get deiced....just get deiced.

Lets stop with this polishing nonsense. The only thing you should polish is your wifes/girlfriends backside after you safely arrive home, carried by a nice clean deiced wing.

just spray it - if anything, for peace of mind.

You're worth it.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Just an opinion:

If you find yourself needing to "polish" frost....just get deiced.

If you a wondering if you really need to get deiced....just get deiced.

Lets stop with this polishing nonsense. The only thing you should polish is your wifes/girlfriends backside after you safely arrive home, carried by a nice clean deiced wing.

just spray it - if anything, for peace of mind.

You're worth it.

Not that I disagree in concept, but "just" getting deiced isn't an option. Some places simply don't HAVE deicing capability, and the only other choice is to wait til spring, which is a long way off right now.

Personally, I'd polish frost, provided adequate margins in performance exist to make me (and my copilot, if applicable) comfortable with the operation.

Fly safe!

David

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Not that I disagree in concept, but "just" getting deiced isn't an option. Some places simply don't HAVE deicing capability, and the only other choice is to wait til spring, which is a long way off right now.

Personally, I'd polish frost, provided adequate margins in performance exist to make me (and my copilot, if applicable) comfortable with the operation.

Fly safe!

David

So you go into places that you have to rely on polishing frost in order to take off? or wait until Spring?

What if you had too much frost? or snow?

How does one determine when it is adequate to go? (Im serious) I wouldn't know.

 

[Dr Pokenhiemer]

The original post and the second question were from relatively new CFI's. I took the meaning of their questions to be about the first flight of the day on a morning with frost, in a C172 or something like that. So that's the way I responded to the question. Even in the Lear, while flying air ambulance, we would take a bedsheet, one person infront of the wing and one behind, and polish the frost by pulling the sheet back and forth like a crosscut saw. This method is perfectly acceptable, safe, and legal. It's a lot cheaper than paying for a service you don't need, however, cost shouldn't be your reason for not deicing. Freezing rain on the other hand requires de-icing. In any case, use common sense and if you don't feel safe about it-don't fly.

 

[9GClub]

I dunno about the frost-polishing stuff guys..... why not just get rid of it altogether? I'm sure there are creative ways to get rid of it without having to do the glycol thing. Sometimes the very act of "polishing" is enough to melt it and get rid of it if it's thin. Or hot water as long as you get rid of all the moisture afterwards. Coffee? Urine?


Don't piss on your plane. Coffee's probably not a good idea either. You get my point.


I'd spray glycol on aircraft all the time back when I was working the line, but in restrospect I didn't have much of a clue about the mechanics of icing. There was a "hit the leading edge real quick and you'll be fine" mentality that was kinda laissez-faire. Don't rely on the line guys to make your plane safe.

"Polishing" frost seems like a shortcut to me. This is one of those controllable factors that can prevent accidents as long as pilots take a little extra time on the ground.

 

[avbug]

Even in the Lear, while flying air ambulance, we would take a bedsheet, one person infront of the wing and one behind, and polish the frost by pulling the sheet back and forth like a crosscut saw. This method is perfectly acceptable, safe, and legal. It's a lot cheaper than paying for a service you don't need, however, cost shouldn't be your reason for not deicing.

Presumably you were operating a learjet with a newer "soft" wing. If you were flying an older lear without the upgrades, you might not be so quick to do that. In fact, you might not get off the ground.

You're right, cost shouldn't be your reason for not deicing. Put it in a hangar, if cost is the issue. The hundred bucks it will cost is better than the six hundred to two grand it can cost to deice.

Is polishing acceptable under certain circumstances? Yes, but not in all aircraft. Many aircraft specifically require a clean surface, and you should always strive to fly a clean surface.

I've been in remote locations where sawing show and ice off the wing with tiedown ropes and polishing frost has been essential; no hangars, no deice, no heat, and very limited resources. No way to stay long and stay well. However, in some aircraft, it's still not acceptable. Aircraft with laminar type surfaces can experience unacceptably high decreases in laminar flow, and movement forward of the separation point on the airfoil, such that performance degrades enough to make takeoff impossible, or climb low or non-existant.

You can get away with it on a Cessna, which is basically a barn door with an engine. You can get away with it on some aircraft with a lot of power, or some aircraft that are so draggy to begin with that the aircraft hardly notices any more. Conversely, when you're out of performance, you're out of performance. Any time deice is available, it's a far better choice than polishing frost or ice.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

all right, I can see bush flying or the sorts...

but no other reasons to do this polishing nonsense. Im worth the de-ice bill. especially on any kind of performance plane.

pains me to hear of accidents like Ebersoll in CO. That 2K worth of deiceing saved is going to cost many many millions and even worse, lives.