FO's can go screw themselves....

[Peter_Griffin]

To quote a few of you... Hey nobody forced them to take the job. Who cares if the family qualifies for food stamps or the inlaws are still clothing their children. They knew what the terms of the job were when they accepted it. All of these pro-union posters need to take a giant leap and stop fighting for these weak causes. If the guy could really make more being a waiter at Bennigan's and needs it, he should go work there...

This crappy attititude is rampant among management and unfortunatly more us pilots than I care to admit. FracCaptains need to be just as concerned for the FOs sitting next to them as they do for themselves. This carries over into the lack of enthusiasm for a union drive from the upper half of the seniority at flex. To take on the attitudes like the ones described above sucks. To not care about their situation -- whethere financial or otherwise -- is not only evidence of $h!tty humanity but could be dangerous as well.

It's a "I've got mine so why fight" attitude. I don't know about you, but the last thing I want the guy sitting next to me thinking about is how if he doesn't eat today they can buy the big case of Pampers at Sam's club versus his wife going to Stonebriar and loading up on the freebies or the guy dodging calls from his wife all day becuase the electricty got turned off and he doesn't have the money to fix it till the expense check (already a week late) deposits cuz he already maxed out the cards to pay the water and car payment. Or the guy who might miss a mortgage payment but never a car payment becuase he realizes he might need to live in that car one day should the ecomony just take one more nosedive. (All true story BTW)

The fact is as pilots we are dreamers and gamblers. We have a tendency think it'll all work out and the sacrifices will be short and worth it. If anyone over told me in my 20's when I started this crazy business that at 45 I'd still be making less than 60k a year I would have laughed and went back to daydreaming about my beach house and porsche. I see it every day...

You took the job because you truly believed "Oh it's just 1 year to the upgrade" or "All your crew meals are catered, so your perdiem will bring you and extra 8k." OR you thought if you could just get you foot in the door and fly you a big ole jet, your employment prospects would go through the roof. You never think about what's gonna happen when Timmy needs braces, the family riots over one more PB&J dinner or your sobbing wife greets you at the door with a bright blue EPT cuz you got a unplanned mid-rotation night home last month.

Just because management (and some thrifty owners) want to exploit these people doesn't mean we should to just becuase we are finally upgraded or making bucks. I NEVER in a million years thought I would be supporting a union drive. I have seen how worthless they have been in many arenas. NJW is a little much for me too sometimes (no offense NJW). But the fact is a union -- and a frac wide union if possible -- is really the only pony we have in the race that will improve our QOL and in my opinion, make our industry stronger and more competative. And if you don't want to do it for yourself take a look back and try and put yourself in a new hires shoes and see if still think it really so fair.

Flex guys, send in your card... www.ibt1108.org.flexjet

Thanks.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

So....

Was that 'Maui Wowi' or 'Jamaican Gold' you just finished?

 

[Caveman]

Neither or he wouldn't be that grumpy. Hungry maybe, but not grumpy.

 

[Humphreybogart]

Hey Pete, don't BOGART that joint, my friend.

 

[RNObased]

So....

Was that 'Maui Wowi' or 'Jamaican Gold' you just finished?

I'm betting on something a little more high powered then that.....

 

[netjetwife]

No offense taken, Peter. If there were more posts like yours and mine and less like others around here, I wouldn't have to be waving my arms while standing on a soapbox to bring attention to the problems you just discussed. Drastic times call for drastic measures, you know. Those who don't recognize that these are drastic times aren't making pathetic FO wages in the frac industry while flying the wealthiest people in the world. The school secretary couldn't believe it when she learned that my husband's pilot salary qualified our (public) grade school son, Morgan, for the "poor kid" reduced-price lunch program. It's ridiculous that pilots can qualify for food stamps, yet there were some in our gateway feeding their children that way. I have no patience for the "got mine/screw you" attitude.

For those of you who think my posts are a bit much, I bet your wife wouldn't if she had thoughts like mine. Before the new contract I couldn't justify my husband being away 17 days a month for the chump change he was making. And I darn sure didn't think it was worth the risk of being widowed (if God forbid he'd died in a plane accident) for around 28K a year. It's not the pilots who are in the wrong for choosing aviation as a career. It's the companies who are paying professionals like blue collar laborers. That needs to end.

Flex pilots, sending in a card is an easy step in the right direction! NJW

 

[wolfpackpilot]

For those of you who think my posts are a bit much,

Your rant and rave routine is getting a little old, even your own peeps are getting tired of it.




Taking you to a dinner party in my circles would be like taking a basket of Ham Sanwiches to a Jewish Picnic.uke:

 

[Daveman]

Your rant and rave routine is getting a little old, even your own peeps are getting tired of it.




Taking you to a dinner party in my circles would be like taking a basket of Ham Sanwiches to a Jewish Picnic.uke:

:laugh: Man, I haven't seen The Wolfpackpilot since Rivers was in town!

 

[Going2Baja]

Noll was very COOL in his day but kinda a d!ck now...Met him a few times at a few ASR shows....

Baja.

 

[Daveman]

Noll was very COOL in his day but kinda a d!ck now...Met him a few times at a few ASR shows....

Baja.

oh well....

 

[wolfpackpilot]

:laugh: Man, I haven't seen The Wolfpackpilot since Rivers was in town!

Wassup...


Phillip Rivers was the greatest ACC quarterback of all times! Dats my story and I'm stickin too (look Guts, I did it again) it!

 

[Humphreybogart]

FO's get paid pretty well at CitationShares. NJW just needs to hear herself talk her mindless chatter. Things are not grim in the fractional world. The owners of our respected companies are in this gig to make $$$, I believe that is the reason to be in business.

 

[netjetwife]

Obviously, the frac industry isn't confined to pilots from NJ and CS. Many others aren't as satisfied as you are, Bogart. So we have another example of the "got mine" attitude. No surprise there. Likewise, the pilots work to make $$$ and have the right to insist on a fair/good contract. I believe that is the reason unions exist.

ALL FRACTIONAL PILOTS, INCLUDING FIRST OFFICERS, ARE PROFESSIONALS AND SHOULD BE COMPENSATED AS SUCH

 

[buttercup]

No offense taken, Peter. If there were more posts like yours and mine and less like others around here, I wouldn't have to be waving my arms while standing on a soapbox to bring attention to the problems you just discussed. Drastic times call for drastic measures, you know. Those who don't recognize that these are drastic times aren't making pathetic FO wages in the frac industry while flying the wealthiest people in the world. The school secretary couldn't believe it when she learned that my husband's pilot salary qualified our (public) grade school son, Morgan, for the "poor kid" reduced-price lunch program. It's ridiculous that pilots can qualify for food stamps, yet there were some in our gateway feeding their children that way. I have no patience for the "got mine/screw you" attitude.

For those of you who think my posts are a bit much, I bet your wife wouldn't if she had thoughts like mine. Before the new contract I couldn't justify my husband being away 17 days a month for the chump change he was making. And I darn sure didn't think it was worth the risk of being widowed (if God forbid he'd died in a plane accident) for around 28K a year. It's not the pilots who are in the wrong for choosing aviation as a career. It's the companies who are paying professionals like blue collar laborers. That needs to end.

Flex pilots, sending in a card is an easy step in the right direction! NJW

I respect and admired most of your posts NJW and appreciate your passion. I think flying is mostly a blue-collar job, most pilots just tell themselves it's white collar to make themselves feel better. Now with that being said I think it deserves white collar wages for the inherent risk and associated time on duty away from home. Blue collar electricians in NYC make more than NJA pilots. The workers on the Big Dig in Boston were blue collar and made twice as much as most NJA pilots. Blue collar jobs are o.k., as long as they justify white collar salaries and I do believe being a fractional pilot does..

 

[netjetwife]

Explaining further....

I tend to think of blue collar jobs as those where the workers need little training and are easily/quickly replaced by another worker. Electricians and such are tradesmen that fall between blue collar and white collar workers. If one applies amount/length of training to achieve the skills required to perform as a frac pilot, especially at companies that have high time requisites, then the pilots are definitely in the white collar category, are they not? It all depends on how you distinguish between the groups. I admire those who work hard, regardless of the job description. That said, I don't think you'll find many service industry, blue collar workers, or even tradesmen who think that pilots should be paid less than they, themselves, are. Most people look at it as a specialized field that justifies professional wages, as you correctly pointed out.

Thanks for the civil discourse.
Netjetwife

 

[Archie Bunker]

Phillip Rivers was the greatest ACC quarterback of all times! Dats my story and I'm stickin too (look Guts, I did it again) it!

As a San Diego Charger fanatic and season ticket holder, I certainly hope that Rivers can "cowboy up" and get the job done at QB. He's got some big shoes to fill, and the general feeling around town is that he isn't up to the task. Hopefully, PR will prove everybody wrong.

Sorry for the thread creep.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

I certainly hope that Rivers can "cowboy up" and get the job done at QB.

I hear ya! To be honest, its going to be very interesting to see if the young man can do it on the NFL level. He's been sitting idle for almost 3 years. He was awesome at the NCAA level, the NFL is another animal.

 

[ArtVandalay]

It amazes me on this board how a discussion about a fractional can end up with a guy talking about the NFL draft.

Peter Griffin--I agree with most of what you say. It is amazing how many guys work at Flexjet that worked in the miltary for 10 years and then flew for Delta Airlines for 27 years and now they are working at flexjet. DIE ALREADY. The guys that do this are greedy jerks and are taking the place of someone starting out that really needs the job. Their reasoning is that they "love flying" Well you know what, GO RENT A 172 or GO BUY A BARON. These guys make me sick to my stomach. Look at all the independence guys on the street and here we have a guy that is almost 70 years old flying for us. This really ticks me off and, they are the ones keeping us from going union.

 

[Necromonger]

Art, I feel your pain. But, it won't be the 60+ dudes that keep us from unionizing. There are many out there who HAVE sent in their cards.

We need to deprogram these new guys. They got the FULL BLOWN Pony Show. They were passing out the Kool-aide by the keg. As these guys experience the real world here at flex, they will come around.

I hear new guys saying: "How can they do this to us?"... "This is not the proper interpretation of the rest rules."..... "How can they call us in rest?"..... "What? 15 1/2 hours to get home at 11:30pm. Is this normal?"

Just sit back.... smile.... and say: "Welcome to the DREAM."

Then, hand them a card.
It works.

 

[netjetwife]

When pilots have another source of income (no matter where it comes from) they should NOT consider that money when deciding if they are paid enough for flying. They should look only at their wages.

As a matter of fairness, I'd like to point out that at NJ we have some older pilots who retired from the airlines who need the job because they lost so much of their retirement. Those pilots were just as interested as others in the pay raise. That said, no pilot's love of flying should get to hamper another pilot's ability to negotiate for professional wages. The livelihood/career of their peers should not be held hostage to their hobby. That is just plain wrong and all anger directed their way is justified.