Flying CRJ-900/705 for 50 seat pay

[FCR112]

Is anyone else thinking about this? Everyone agrees that flying 700's for 200 pay is messed up, and no one likes it but it's a done deal at Skywest. Unfortunately it seems ASA is losing some 700 flying because they do still get paid more, for now... But seriously folks the 900 is already there.

What do all the Skywest pilots plan to do now that the bigger RJ's are "on the property?" Aren't 50-99 seats the same pay rate there? I have heard Delta has scope, but not United... I guess fly them for 50 seat pay? Do they have a choice? Would voting in ALPA help these guys out?

And if their management plans to fly them with less seats, how long do you suppose that would last anyway. Would buying 90 seaters and flying them around with less seats make economic sense? (With the obvious exception of multi-class cabins)

Someone please tell me I'm not the only one alarmed by this.

 

[Jetscream32]

Delta's current scope does not allow for a company to operate CRJ 900's on the same certificate that a company uses to operate as Delta Connection. This is the reason why Mesa Air Group is flying the ERJ's and Dash 8's for Delta under the Freedom certificate. So, unless Skywest/ASA can put 900's on a different operating certificate then they won't be flying them.

 

[dvmthwsvan]

Not trying to argue, but just curious. Why didn't ACA fly for Delta and FlyI fly the A320. Did they use the same cert. I take it they did, and if so, why didnt they pull and Mesa and just get another one for FlyI.

 

[Jetscream32]

Not sure if I am right about this (maybe an Indy guy can correct me) but I think the DoJets were flying under the ACjet ceritificate.

 

[FCR112]

I'm new, help me out.

If Skywest can't operate these aircraft under their own certificate for UNITED or DELTA without losing all of Delta's flying, why do you suppose they are acquiring them at all?

 

[Smacktard]

...Unfortunately it seems ASA is losing some 700 flying because they do still get paid more, for now...

Looks like you've bought into management's spin on this as well. According to Mike Kraupp, VP of Finance SkyWet, he said "'We do not plan' to reduce the disparities, Kraupp said, adding that pay differences between the companies are 'irrelevant" (Salt Lake Tribune, August 26, 2005).

Of course if they get most to believe that the pay rate difference is what awarded the planes to SkyWest, then they have done a good job. Unfortunately, everyone knows that the 5 planes were headed to SkyWest anyway. With 17 more 705's on order, if they can get us to believe that, and then reduce our pay on the 70, they can pretend that they are awarding us with planes that may already be on the way here.

As I've said before, I'll vote no to anything with same payrate for 50-90 seats, or 50-70 for that matter. We've always been paid based on the number of seats. I think we should keep it that way.

 

[IronWalt]

Future planning,

In anycase, I want you to walk into a resturant tonight and tell the waitress you want the 16 oz steak for the same price as the 12 oz steak. See how long it takes them to stop laughing and tell you no.

 

[Rogue5]

Someone please tell me I'm not the only one alarmed by this.

You are not the only one alarmed by this...

 

[Iflyamouse]

As I've said before, I'll vote no to anything with same payrate for 50-90 seats, or 50-70 for that matter. We've always been paid based on the number of seats. I think we should keep it that way.

When you say "we", who are you referring to? Because most of the big guys pay their 757/767 pilots the same (with maybe an exception for the 767-4). UPS pays their 727 pilots the same as their 747 pilots. SWA pays the same for a 737-3's as they do for the newer 737-7's. Those are just a few examples ... I'm sure there are several more.

By your logic, it would be okay to fly a CRJ700 with 70 seats and a CRJ900 with 70 seats for the same rate (very close to DAL's proposed config with first class seating). Will you vote yes to that?

 

[SBD]

I'm not quite sure I understand this. Skywest can fly the -900's for United but not Delta because of their scope. The fact that Skywest doesn't have ALPA representation allow them to pay their pilots the same rate on the -200, -700, and now the -900? A newbie trying to understand the game.

 

[AbOvo]

I think the way it works is SkyWest is not allowed to fly any jets over 70 seats as long as Delta has it's scope clause in the contract. That means no over 70 seats jets at all with a SkyWest (or ASA?) name on the side.

SkyWest pilots agreed to a pay scale that is the same for any jet from 50 to 99 seats. That has nothing to do with ALPA or not, it's just something the SkyWest pilot group agreed to.

 

[say again]

Not sure if I am right about this (maybe an Indy guy can correct me) but I think the DoJets were flying under the ACjet ceritificate.

We were operating the 328 under the ACjet cert for a while, but later we merged into one cert with all A/C. I guess we could've still been flying the DoJo's if we were still on that seperate cert!! Oh well, it was a blast while it lasted.

 

[Smacktard]

When you say "we", who are you referring to? Because most of the big guys pay their 757/767 pilots the same (with maybe an exception for the 767-4). UPS pays their 727 pilots the same as their 747 pilots. SWA pays the same for a 737-3's as they do for the newer 737-7's. Those are just a few examples ... I'm sure there are several more.

By your logic, it would be okay to fly a CRJ700 with 70 seats and a CRJ900 with 70 seats for the same rate (very close to DAL's proposed config with first class seating). Will you vote yes to that?

'We' as in the industry in general. As for the 75/76 rates, if you're talking about Delta, they are the 76 rates applied to the 75's (tickle down if you know what i mean). I know there are a few examples of airlines with single payrates regardless of seats (or cargo capacity), but in general, pilots have usually been paid in accordance with aircraft capacity. And with regard to ASA or SkyWest, the 50 seat pay rate is being applied to 70 or more seats. I'm opposed to that plain and simple.

If you want to go all the way with it, then there shouldn't be any difference between a regional 1900 guy and a 747 captain, try to get that one over on ALPA.

 

[sniper]

Not sure if I am right about this (maybe an Indy guy can correct me) but I think the DoJets were flying under the ACjet ceritificate.

Initially yes,

FAA ordered them to put it on the same certificate.

 

[Tomct]

Yeah, there will be NO paycut for us at ASA. Skywst mgmnt has another thing coming if they think they can "scare" us into taking paycuts for airplanes. AINT GOONA HAPPEN!!
Look at what happened to Comair. They were "Promised" new aircraft if they would take a pay freeze....and what happened....the ole sand-papered fist! I would not take a paycut for growth, it is not worth it to me!

 

[dojetdriver]

Delta's current scope does not allow for a company to operate CRJ 900's on the same certificate that a company uses to operate as Delta Connection.

Not yet. And hopefully, never will.

 

[dojetdriver]

Not sure if I am right about this (maybe an Indy guy can correct me) but I think the DoJets were flying under the ACjet ceritificate.

The ACJet cert was acquired at the time to get around UAL's existing scope, pre UAL contract 2000. It limited the number of jets that an express carrier could operate regardless of paint job. DAL needed a new connection partner in LGA, ACA jumped at the oppurtunity for growth but was limited with the scope and UAL.

ACA applied for, and eventually got, a new certificate to operate the 328's. It was a total goat rope and an entire diatribe could be written on what a mess both the FAA and ACA made of it. It takes usually about 2 years to get an air carrier certificate. ACA thought they could do it in a month. The second (ACJet) cert got them around UAL's scope since it was on a seperate cert. After UAL's contract 2000 and the RJ give away that ensued, all planes were put back on the ACA cert because UAL's scope was relaxed.

The ACJet cert went unused and eventually dropped dead, I believe. There was some talk that DAL had bought the cert. For what, who knows.

 

[blueridge71]

Not trying to argue, but just curious. Why didn't ACA fly for Delta and FlyI fly the A320. Did they use the same cert. I take it they did, and if so, why didnt they pull and Mesa and just get another one for FlyI.

I asked about this and TM said that operating two different certificates would not be efficient. Plus they wanted to get out of the feeder business and concentrate fully on FLYI. At the time, they did have two separate certificates, ACA and AC Jet. I believe that they allowed the AC Jet certificate to expire in late 2004.

 

[QCappy]

Yeah, there will be NO paycut for us at ASA. Skywst mgmnt has another thing coming if they think they can "scare" us into taking paycuts for airplanes. AINT GOONA HAPPEN!!
Look at what happened to Comair. They were "Promised" new aircraft if they would take a pay freeze....and what happened....the ole sand-papered fist! I would not take a paycut for growth, it is not worth it to me!

Right on! I hope everyone at ASA has that attitude. I would be nice if the skywest guys pulled their head out of Mesaville and realized how much they are lining the pockets of management by flying more seats for no extra pay. I liked the steak analogy earlier. I makes that payscale sound real stupid. It's time to put our collective foot down and start raising the bar from the bottom up. You can count on the Horizon pilots to hold the bar high at the top end. I can assure you we are united when it comes to keeping the top end at the top!

 

[Crash Pad]

Is anyone else thinking about this? Everyone agrees that flying 700's for 200 pay is messed up, and no one likes it but it's a done deal at Skywest. Unfortunately it seems ASA is losing some 700 flying because they do still get paid more, for now... But seriously folks the 900 is already there.

Skywest pilots make more than ASA pilots. Yes even on the 70. So it is more like Skywest is flying the 50 for 70 seat wages. Hourly rates in this industry are a ballpark... W2's are reality.
ASA didn't lose flying unless SKYW has a new policy of awarding flying to the more expensive group.