Flying (coach) today... some fluid on the wing.

[lahso]

Should I have kept my mouth shut?

Ok, so first off... I fly a lot, but coach, not PIC. I consider myself to be quite a bit more knowledgeable about flying then the other sardines next to me. I'm probably the last person in the world to ever say anything to a FA on the planes... 1) because i know stuff isn't really a big deal usually, and 2) i know that whatever I say falls on deaf ears anyway.

Today I was on a flight from JFK to LAX... 757 on one of the majors. I'm sitting in 34A... as we're pushing back, I notice some abnormally fresh, bubbling fluid (hydraulic I assume) on the most inboard flap... I really tried to assume it was nothing... but it was bubbling and it wasn't hot today in NYC. All good, I try and forget about it.

Here's a pic of what I saw at the gate:
Pic #1 - Pre-flight
(yes I do see the history of it being there before, but it all looked recent)

Well after the pilots did their control checks and extended the flaps to take-off setting, I noticed that it wasn't just a little, it was a lot... and it was definitely fresh... yellow... not black... and still runny.

Well, we were about #7 for takeoff and as I was sitting there I decided to ring the FA Call Button... Knowing I'm gonna look like a d0u@hebag. I figured it was either I say something and put myself at rest, or be really pissed off at myself when the plane is barreling towards the ground wishing I would have said something.

So the FA comes back, and was incredibly condescending... as in... "I don't see anything" and "well, I'll mention it to the pilot if I get a chance" She didn't really even want to step over the guy next to me to see what I was seeing (remember, inboard flap=impossible to see from the aisle).

I'm about 90% positive she didn't say anything to the pilot, but she leaves, comes back and tells me the pilot said it was nothing to worry about... Like I said, I'm sure its not, but really... isn't it better to be safe then sorry.

As we're approaching LAX, with flaps fully extended, I decided to snap another pic, just for the sake of it...

Pic #2 - Post Flight

Now, I didn't say anything about me flying planes to the FA, because frankly a 172 is not a 757. However, I told her that I fly a lot and I've never seen this before (which is the truth). So my question for you all w/ much more experience than I have...

1) Should I have said something?
2) Should I have made a bigger deal about it?
3) Can anyone shed some light as to what it is?

And if nothing else... shouldn't they have done a little more to put me at ease... I mean, I'm sure Pilots get stuff like this all the time, so you have to manage your resources and be smart... but come'on... I think AT LEAST a maintenance guy should get beat up...

I dunno... love any feedback... heck, you can tell me I'm stupid if you want.

~mt

(it actually reminds me of the old 'squawks' list -- 'Evidence of oil leak removed')

 

[EngineOut]

I wouldv'e wanted MX to take a look at that if I were the pilot...I don't know about the 75, but that ain't good on a CRJ or a 172. Probably not life threatening, but why chance it?

 

[avbug]

Hydraulic fluid isn't yellow; it's red or purple, depending on what is in use (in some cases it can be either). Yellow is fuel. Yellow or clear. Or oil. Turbine oils are slightly purple, brown, or in some cases, yellow. If the fluid is bubbling, it's either coming from a pressurized source, or it's in slipstream from some source of airflow. Possibly both. In any case, if you're not sure, you are doing the right thing by passing the information along.

You were correct to do as you did. I'd have been for discussing it directly with the pilot(s) afterward to follow up, too.

If I were uncertain about what I was seeing, I'd get off the flight until I was satisifed, just as I'd do as PIC.

 

[670X]

I, as a pilot, would like to have known about it. You can't see that from the ground.
If that was normal why didn't the manufacture just skip painting that part of the flap?

Not normal?.... Someone should know.

That said it looks like its been going on a while.

 

[Singlecoil]

It is hard to tell from those pictures, but it looks like that was some excess grease. I've never seen it on that part of the wing, but I don't exactly look at that part of the wing very often. The Boeing grease is yellow-green in color as well. If it was just excess grease, then it was nothing to worry about, but I don't fault you at all for pointing it out. A lot of times the will slather a lot on the leading edge slats that will run back a little on the wing especially in the joints.

 

[say again]

Of course you should say something if you dont like what you see. Hey, its your a$$ too. To me it looks like some kind of grease, but just my opinion!

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Looks like excess grease trailing over the leading edge of the flap from the high velocity air encountered in flight. The first pic only reveals the tip of the oil trail whereas the second shot after flap deployment shows the extention of the tip. Doesnt seem like it increased at all during the flight.

 

[COpilot]

I would have told you thank you for trying to help, and always feel free to say something.

Then I would have said, "it's normal, it's just the grease, and it is always there, and people are always pointing it out, I don't need to see it"....

You handled it fine...

 

[COpilot]

I wouldv'e wanted MX to take a look at that if I were the pilot...I don't know about the 75, but that ain't good on a CRJ or a 172. Probably not life threatening, but why chance it?

Ok, so I take the airplane back to the gate, for something that I know what it is? So I delay the flight because some PVT pilot with a C172 type tells me he sees something that he does know kown is grease? Then we are out of the line up delay 150 people because you think with all your Cessna time you know about Boeings too. Give me your name and number, and hire me your lawyer, so that when I'm brought before the CP, you can help with my carpet dance I'll be doing.

"ain't good" How do you judge that? Do you have an A&P, Do you have a rating on the CRJ, The B757?

"holly Sh!t" you do have a CRJ rating, how long have you been flying? You mean to tell me you have not seen excess grease "flow" out! Have you ever been in a shop, have you ever looked at the top of airliners? WOW!

Sorry I am just in shock, that you quoted go back for MX over this.

 

[mynameisjim]

"holly Sh!t" you do have a CRJ rating, how long have you been flying? You mean to tell me you have not seen excess grease "flow" out! Have you ever been in a shop, have you ever looked at the top of airliners? WOW!

Sorry I am just in shock, that you quoted go back for MX over this.

I've never seen that much grease flow back off a flight control before. I'd have reported it up the chain as well. I must be stupid too.

 

[lahso]

Thanks guys... I appreciate the responses... Like I said, I really hesitated to say something given my lack of experience behind the controls... Then I decided I should given my experience behind the wing.

So... How often DO you pro-pilots get told irrelevant info?

How many people claim "I'm a pilot, too.... I've shot the checkerboard approach into Kai Tak a bunch of times... in FSX"?

Trust me, I can relate... I'm in the music biz and EVERYONE knows how to make a song better.

~mt

 

[Mama's Boy]

Hydraulic fluid isn't yellow; it's red or purple, depending on what is in use (in some cases it can be either). Yellow is fuel. Yellow or clear. Or oil. Turbine oils are slightly purple, brown, or in some cases, yellow.

It is hard to tell from the picture but it very well could be hydraulic fluid. Skydrol has a purple dye added but it does not necessarily remain purple. Either way, in my opinion you took the correct action.

From a Skydrol website Q&A

Q: What happens when Skydrol fluids change color?

A: Skydrol fluids are given a purple dye to make it easy to distinguish them from other fluids. But the dye does not usually last as long as the fluid does. The color may change from purple to gray or yellow or green, yet the fluid can still meet all used fluid specifications.

 

[McNugget]

It looks like grease. You guys ever see a real hydraulic leak from an airliner? It pours out of the aircraft, all over the ramp. MX guys have to go crawling up looking for it in haz-mat spacesuits. It is ok to ask, though. It sounds like the problem here was the FA. Half of them don't even know how to retract the door stop on the cockpit door.

 

[avbug]

You guys ever see a real hydraulic leak from an airliner? It pours out of the aircraft, all over the ramp. MX guys have to go crawling up looking for it in haz-mat spacesuits.

I've certainly seen "real" hydraulic leaks which ranged from filling the aircraft with a thick red mist of H-5606, or blown out brake lines and pressure lines, to pinhole leaks that warned of what might occur. I've seen surfaces wet after being wiped down,which is the most common thing to see with a hydraulic lceak. A real one, that is.

Rarely does anyone need to don a tyvek or other protective suit to tackle the problem.

The pictures in this case say little; the fact that the wing has that much fluid and dirt on it in that location demands attention, and yes, it most certainly should be referred to maintenance. I once had two wings completely cracked through on an airplane, with the only external indication being two small stains on the same wing station where fuel from the integral cells was leaking through the cracks; both only an inch long. Big things are often foretold by little things, and it may be the only warning you get. A catastrauphic engine failure last year was preceeded only by a slight chemical whiff and no other signs, then the oil was gone and shortly thereafter I was on a hillside. Little things, often unnoticed, warn of big things.

As both a pilot and mechanic, I'd certainly take it seriously. I'd take the comments of a private pilot seriously, and I couldn't afford not to. I'd take the comments or questions of a non pilot passenger seriously, and I have, and it's paid off.

You have an obligation to take such things seriously. If they turn out to be nothing, then so be it. But until that's proven to be the case, both the flight attendant and the flight crew have an obligation to proceed as though they do have a legitimate issue with which to deal. History is full of cases where crews didn't, and lived or didn't live, to regret it.

 

[McNugget]

Rarely does anyone need to don a tyvek or other protective suit to tackle the problem.

I was flying (or about to, anyway) a DC-10. Was coming out from the tail section beneath #2. Poor bastards, they came out drenched in it.

You have an obligation to take such things seriously. If they turn out to be nothing, then so be it. But until that's proven to be the case, both the flight attendant and the flight crew have an obligation to proceed as though they do have a legitimate issue with which to deal. History is full of cases where crews didn't, and lived or didn't live, to regret it.

I think so, too.

 

[say again]

Ok, so I take the airplane back to the gate, for something that I know what it is? So I delay the flight because some PVT pilot with a C172 type tells me he sees something that he does know kown is grease? Then we are out of the line up delay 150 people because you think with all your Cessna time you know about Boeings too. Give me your name and number, and hire me your lawyer, so that when I'm brought before the CP, you can help with my carpet dance I'll be doing.

"ain't good" How do you judge that? Do you have an A&P, Do you have a rating on the CRJ, The B757?

"holly Sh!t" you do have a CRJ rating, how long have you been flying? You mean to tell me you have not seen excess grease "flow" out! Have you ever been in a shop, have you ever looked at the top of airliners? WOW!

Sorry I am just in shock, that you quoted go back for MX over this.

Well what makes you the know it all???? The guy had a concern and wanted another opinion about it. Why is that such a problem?? If he goes back to MX and they say its nothing, so be it. I'd rather that then the alternative!!!!

 

[wrxpilot]

Should I have kept my mouth shut?

Like you, I don't have any experience with a/c like that. But I would've said something too - that looks really weird and out of the ordinary (to me). Good for you on saying something!

 

[svcta]

Give me your name and number, and hire me your lawyer, so that when I'm brought before the CP, you can help with my carpet dance I'll be doing.

You're the guy who takes a lawyer to talk to the CP? And where is it that you work where you'd have to do a carpet dance for having Mx look at excessive fluid on your ride?

Go back and reread your post. I think the point you made is that you're an a$s. Good one.

 

[COpilot]

Well what makes you the know it all???? The guy had a concern and wanted another opinion about it. Why is that such a problem?? If he goes back to MX and they say its nothing, so be it. I'd rather that then the alternative!!!!

What makes me the know it all, is the 15 years of riding around in the back of that airplane and looking at that wing, it's the 10 years of flying that airplane and walking under that wing! That's what makes me a know it all, just as every other person who flys these types had better know what grease running of of a flap attachment point looks like...

I said in my first responce that the pax did great reporting, and the crew should listen. The crew should not discount information, but if something you have heard a hundred times; then no I'm not going to shut down a flight. There's being conserative, and there's overkill.

 

[COpilot]

You're the guy who takes a lawyer to talk to the CP? And where is it that you work where you'd have to do a carpet dance for having Mx look at excessive fluid on your ride?

Go back and reread your post. I think the point you made is that you're an a$s. Good one.

Your not getting this, that was not excess fluid for a B757, and anyone who flys it should know that.

Two, at CO, and if you get called to the CPO you had better have a Rep. with you. And yes, I'll go back to the gate if a pax saw something that I had not seen, and (or) did not know what it could be. I would not expect to have anything said for doing that. But they do expect us to know what things look like on our airplanes, for excess grease bubbling up they would say something.