Flying Around Thunderstorms w/out Radar

[135wannabe]

I'm starting training in a piston cessna twin, 135 freight, night/day runs with no radar.

What are some good techniques for navigating around embedded weather with no radar? Do you get a real good wx briefing, look at weatherchannel, visit weather.com and print out a radar image, get ATC to vector you around the crap? I've heard that ATC will not vector you if they're too busy, then you're screwed. Is it appropriate to talk to the plane in front of you to see which headings they took to get through? When is it a good time to refuse to take a trip because the wx is just too bad. I've heard of some companies wanting you to bust thru level 3's and 4's. I'm just looking for technique here. I've heard lots of people on this board talk about flying in bad wx, but nobody really suggests specific techniques as to how to do it. Thanks for your input.

 

[falcondriver]

I've done it before in Barons. Its no fun.... Get real good wx briefings and use ATC. ATC is usually already funneling airplanes thru holes in the weather. They have never turned me down yet in the Falcons. Just remember, they are sitting behind a desk. I've had them give me vectors around weather and right into thunderstorms. Be careful and learn as much as you can.
Goodluck
FD

 

[Checks]

Look at the radar right before taking off and have a plan.

Fly low and avoid where the lightning/heavy rain is at.

Ask to follow a plane that has radar.

Have Fun!

 

[Groucho]

Thunderstorms w/out radar

I have done this in a Baron58. There is a suprising amount of weather that you can fly in, but also a lot you cannot.

All the above posts are correct and I would add two items.

There is a weather product called the RAREP or Radar Weather Report. This product is a coded transmission on the printer network with intensitys and bearings and distances. It is not a user friendly document but I learned to use it because where I was it was the only thing available. It comes out a 35 past the hour and is very accurate at that time. You can find out about this report in AC 00-45B Aviation Weather Services.

Another trick is to plan you route, if possible, at lower altitudes and by way of other class C airspace of other approach controls. The approach control radars are more sensitive to Wx than the center radars and they have higher resolution and they may be able to help you out better.

Don't be afraid to ask atc for different requests like; I would like this heading a a block altitiude of 4000 to 7000 to remain clear of clouds and to deviate around weather. If you are in radar contact and there is no other traffic then atc may very well give you your request. If have used this many times.

Hpe this helps.

 

[BoxFlyr]

i did it for 3 years in the southeast, not fun, but i survived. i agree with doing everything discussed so far. one other thing i did was to write all the awos freqs. on my ifr chart so if i wasn't able to get help from anyone else, i could check conditions along my route. also, aim for the lighter spots(doesn't always work). hope this helps. boxflyr

 

[U-I pilot]

use ADF?

In my instrument training ground school the instructor told us that when lightening strikes, the ADF needle will jump and point at the location of the strike...anyone tried this? Anyone actually use this? seems rather primative but i guess ya cant knock it till ya try it right?

 

[firstthird]

I wasn't ever a cargo hauler but I'd be careful if you ever get a weather forecast that uses thunderstorms and embedded in the same sentence.

When I was instructing in P-3s we had no weather radar since the radar operator doesn't fly on training flights usually, so, if the forecast called for embedded thunderstorms, I didn't go there. period.

The general rule of thumb is the safest way to avoid a thunderstorm is to fly around it by at least 20 miles (closer and a hail storm or lightning strike can still reach out and touch you). Failing that over it by a good margin, not an option in a piston, under it is less attractive (a downdraft can ruin your day) and through it is flat out stupid. IMO.

You are the PIC. At the Navy's aviation safety school they teach that the Weather is never a causal factor in an accident, it is what the crew did about it. Meaning, no one forced you to shoot an approach with a thunderstorm 3 miles off of short final or to arrive at your destination with so little fuel that you have no choice but to fly too close to a T-storm.

If you are flying IMC w/o an operable weather radar that you are familar with and know how to use well, and the forecast called for embedded Thunderstorms, I would posit that you are in the wrong place and if you are unlucky enough to take a lightning strike but lucky enough to survive your ticket may not survive the resulting FAA investigation. just my opinion, others have different ones.

Sorry for being long winded but I obviously feel strongly about the subject. The short answer to your question is that if there are embedded storms and you don't have a weather radar (lightning detector) then you should be able to maintain VMC for the duration of the flight and avoid T-storms visually. Failing that, don't go. Period.

 

[PRO AV8R]

I am currently flying freight in the southeast (Florida). I have had to deal with a lot of thunderstorms without radar. The previous posts are right on the money. Your best bet for air mass thunderstorms (summer time) in a piston aircraft is to fly low and try and go around the areas with the most lightning. ATC is also a real help. On the frequent occasion that there is no option other than to fly through a big, nasty towering cu, it is very important to slow down, extend gear if it is retractable, increase your cockpit lighting to reduce blindness from lightning, tighten your belt and keep the wings level. It is actually in a pshycotic way, kind of fun at times. It is amazing how your confidence level will soar after this type of flying.

 

[Dr4uh60l]

I fly along the same route everyday. I know there the intersections are in relation to the VOR's. I listen to the other people on the radio and try to get a mental picture of what's going on based on radio chatter. I never intentionally fly into storms, but eventually you will find yourself in one. Maintain a level attitude and accept the fact that your altitude will go up and down. Last night going into Atlanta, lightning was all around and I was getting tossed around pretty good in my C210. ATC asked how my ride was--I told them, "Like a Junebug in a bugzapper!" He laughed and said it would get better soon. ATC is usually pretty helpful at keeping you away from the really rough stuff--unless you are a Freight Dog and they want to get a report of it's intensity.

 

[135wannabe]

Thanks for all the good advice. Its funny how all of the aviation text books regarding weather and thunderstorms thoroughly explain the science behind thunderstorms, but techniques are not given too much regarding how to fly NEAR them without radar. Thank you all for your help and insight.