Flying and fun do not mix, heres proof

[Bryan D]

It's all fun and games until someone get's a eye put out.

 

[Hung Start]

Yup,,, one thing absolutely true about this flying thing of ours:


You go from beng a hero to a zero in a milisecond.

 

[BritishGuy]

Correct me if I'm wrong - I'm not too sure about this but being up at that altitude, doesn't it push you further into that 'coffin corner' making the aircraft less manouverable??

Either way - hope they rest in peace.

 

[avbug]

Coffin corner is a point where one is trapped in a narrow range between aerodynamic machbuffet, and aerodynamic stall. Most typical civil aircraft can't ever get there.

 

[Flex]

1. You can fly at a 121 carrier for years and only fly an empty plane a half-dozen times.

2. "supercritical wing" + "have a little fun" = bad ju-ju.

3. The word I heard was one of the engines had "melted" before impact.

We're still getting the info, but the whole thing stinks.

 

[Ultra Grump]

The CRJ is incapable of reaching its coffin corner. Theoretically, that is.

 

[AA717driver]

For someone who drives around all day in the 20's or low 30's being at FL410 probably is a real thrill.

I always got a little kick out of dragging a 717 or -80 up to 370 because it so rarely got there. They just got bit that time.TC

 

[comander]

If I could take my c172 to fl410 I would try to and would love to and would do it!

 

[avbug]

When I was a kid, spraying in Kansas, I borrowed my bosses Cessna 150 one afternoon, for an experiment. I wanted to know how high it could go, and wanted to know if it would go beyond the published service ceiling based on thermalling. Locally convective activity was building, I knew there was rising air, and I wanted to see if the engine would compensate for the inefficient wings while thermalling.

I managed to make almost seventeen five before coming back down, and it took a little over three hours. I don't know that I'd try it again. At the time I was desperately hungry to learn evrything I could about flying and aviation, in any way I could.

I still am.

I don't know that I can fault or blame folks who decide to fly the airplane within the published limitations. There's nothing magic about flying at 410. If someone is trying to get there and the aircraft obviously won't make it or isn't getting there, it's time to request an intermediate altitude and stop the climb. Lots of critics and crucifiers here who believe that the fact that these folks are dead is automatic condemnation of their selection of a flight level...that wasn't outside the published envelope. That makes no sense.

Several folks have droned on about being above the relight envelope, but that's also a stupid and nonsensical arguement. Is there anybody here that regularly cruises at 410 in an aircraft that's capable of achieving a relight at that altitude...or are you all flying equipment that has a published relight envelope ceiling closer to say, 20,000? Hands?

If the crew pushed the temperature limits of the engines trying to get up there, this had nothing to do with altitude, but improper engine operation. If the crew exceeded their climb angle and began either aerodynamically stalling or getting compressor stalls, then again, this is a pilot issue, and nothing to do with "fun" and altitude. It's a crew that merey quit flying the airplane responsibly.

The decision to attempt a higher altitude is not of it's own accord irresponsible. Being cleared to that altitude is not irresponsible. Accepting that clearance is not irresponsible. Enjoying the opportunity is not irresponsible.

If the crew thus engaged elects to ignore engine parameters, airspeed limitations, or angle of attack, that may be presumed irresponsible, but upon that I may not comment, nor is anybody else here particularly qualified to comment...on an ongoing and active investigation.

 

[NJA Capt]

Is there anybody here that regularly cruises at 410 in an aircraft that's capable of achieving a relight at that altitude...or are you all flying equipment that has a published relight envelope ceiling closer to say, 20,000? Hands?

The Citation X is certified to FL510. It's airstart envelope begins at FL350.