Flight training?

[be76pilot]

Would presently having a commercial muti instrument certificate from a civilian flight school help me in future military flight training? Surely I wouldn't be eligible for any shortcuts, right? Based on military pilots experiences, should I join the services with the hopes of going through flight training and logging a lot of hours, or just concentrate on staying enlisted and getting my degree? My overall goal is to get to the airlines as fast as possible. Thanks again for your info.

 

[Tweetdrvr]

be76,

Try a search for this topic and I am sure you will get the answers you need. This topic has been discussed many times. Remember if you join the military, you are joining the military. Your job is to break things and kill people to keep bad people from breaking things and killing people in America. If you want the airlines as quick as possible then stay civilian.

 

[be76pilot]

Thanks T-Driver, my overall goal is the airlines, but military service is probably the only way I will be able to afford a degree. Most likely, I will just join for 4 yrs and get the degree paid for. Just curious about the military flight training process.

 

[Ih8AFYesmen]

I think you meant to say "I want to be a military pilot and eventually become an airline pilot", right?!?! If that's the case, in my humble opinion, your best route is through the AFRes/ANG. Do a search on this forum. In most cases, you'll fly as much as or more than your active duty counter parts. The best thing is, you can just be a pilot, if you'd like, in the reserve/guard. The downside is the pay and bennies. You are only covered when you are on duty/orders. Talk to some folks before you take the dive. If the airlines are in your sights, then the guard/reserve is the better road to take. Just my .02.
As far as having civilian experience, I think it can only help you get through UPT. In MOST cases, you'll be way ahead of the game in the T-37/T-6 phase, but everyone eventually catches up in the T-38/T-1 phase. I've flown with students who were commuter pilots and they seem to do well in pilot training. If you go with alot of civilian time, just be willing to accept the military way of flying and you'll do fine. Humbleness and willingness will go far in the UPT environment. Good luck!

 

[MercuryPilot]

Most likely, I will just join for 4 yrs and get the degree paid for. Just curious about the military flight training process.

If you want to be a military pilot you'll need to get that degree and be commisioned as an Officer. Next you'll spend ~1.5 years in flight training and if you're Navy you'll take on an 8 year obligation upon earning your wings. As many others will tell you, don't join any branch of the military to just log some cheap flight time. We're here for bombs on target and troops in zone.

MP

 

[be76pilot]

Thanks for the posts everyone.....

 

[milplt]

I'll back those other posts about your aspirations 100%. Only you know your motivations, but if you aren't into the military aviation thing - don't do it, both for our sake and yours. After all of the training is complete, you'll probably spend a lot of time doing some flying out of some desolate places for a large chunk of one of your future years. It sucks for everyone. The last thing that I thought any squadron needed was someone whining about how much it sucked and how they wanted to go home - all because they joined the military for the wrong reasons. Also, as a UPT IP, I thought it wasn't difficult to tell the students who were there just to build their logbook time by their attitude in the debrief.

 

[weekendwarrior]

Let me state this, and don't take it as a flame. To join for 4 years to get the degree paid for is the wrong reason. First of all, flight training will have a minimum 6 year commitment depending on branch. Second, you are going to be really dissapointed if you join to get your degree and ratings. Yes, those things are benefits you get out of your service, but are secondary. You have to put up with ALOT of BS in the process, that makes you into a soldier first. You will be deployed to where people will want to kill you. You will be gone for months from your family/home. You will be stationed in craphole duty stations that you don't like. And, you'll be expected to maintain currency and aircraft proficiency, which both require time and studying. IMHO, you won't have time get your degree, and will be very dissapointed if that is what you joined for.

As stated before, if college and ratings is your goal, join the guard/reserves. You will still likely be deployed and get shot at, but if you make it home alive, you will have your GI bill and the time to take the classes, ratings, etc, etc and do well. That is my current situation, but understand I have been at lovely Fort Rucker, Alabama (sarcasm) for 1.5 years just for flight school. I was already enlisted prior, so I already had the military as a part of my life. I joined because I wanted to be in the military, not get college/ratings. I'm just fortunate to have the opportunity to come to flight school. I'll be heading to the sandbox eventually, but I am ok with that because that is what I signed up for.

Opportunity cost considered, you would be better off doing everything on the civilian side, IF all you wanted to get out of the military was ratings and college. Too much BS to put up with if that is your only goal. However, if you want to serve and think you would enjoy being in the military (I know I do) then by all means go for it. Just understand what you are getting into is potentially life threatening and there is alot more to being in the military than college/flight ratings.

Again, not a flame, just the plane truth that one needs to consider.

 

[be76pilot]

Thanks for all the replies to my question everyone. I have always loved the military, and growing up in a military family has definately influenced my life for the better. I also love flying, and would not mind a commitment in the military. However, things are a lot more complicated for me. I cannot get a medical waiver for my past medical history (cancer) to join any of the services (Army waiver pending approval), so that is my story in a nutshell. My motivation to join the military is based on a desperate need for medical coverage (benefits), a need to pay off my loans, and the possibility of learning to fly helicopters in the warrant officer program. I would appreciate all of the extra info you guys can dig up for me about the warrant officer flight training medical disqualifications, but right now I am just trying to get into the military (Army). So, I thank you in advance for any more info you may have on this topic. I am not sure what to do nowdays, but hopefully something good will come up for me. I currently have a special issuance first class medical issued by the FAA.

 

[Snakum]

I'm sure some of the Army Helo guys will have the most current info, but I've had two friends go thru the Warrant program, one for aviation and one for engineering, and another into aviation as an officer, and since no one else has chimed in yet I'll add what little I know ...

According to what I was told, at least 60 hours of college credit was required for the Warrant Officer aviation slot, unless it was waived, which it could be under special circumstances but I don't know what those circumstances are, I'm betting it has something to do with prior service as a crew chief er sump'n. Both friends that went thru had at least a two-year degree. So, I'm not sure a Warrant/flight slot would be available to you without at least two year degree, even in the guard. When I spoke to the guard unit (rotary-wing) at RDU in 1995 they told me the same applied to their unit for flight slots (I had that covered).

Now here's what one friend did to wind up in a flight slot, with no prior college: he first did a four-year hitch as a DAT (Dumb-ass Tanker) and completed an AS degree at night while in Fort Hood, using the Army's secondary education resources. Following ETS he finished his BS, joined ROTC while he was doing it, and then went back into the Army as a ButterBar (ouch! ) and with a school slot at Rucker (AH-64s). And one other guy: did two-years as a crew chief on OH-58s, completed an AS degree at night, and re-enlisted thru the BEAR program for a Warrant Officer flight slot and was flying a Blackhawk for the 101st.

So, as others have said, for military aviation there's really no way around getting at least a two-year degree, and you have to be aware that you're a soldier/sailor/marine/airman first, and this entails a LOT of things that aren't too cool (and some things that are WAY cool). As an old fart, allow me to be a know-it-all and tell you what I'd do if I was young again with no degree, no funds to get one, and needed a little adventure in my life ...

Talk to a recruiter and possibly a guard unit commander about a crew chief slot in Army aviation, make sure you can pass the US Army flight physical before diving in. You could do a two-year hitch as a crew chief and finish an AS/AAS degree (at night while not in the field, or long distance if deployed) while you're doing it. There are tremendous number of educational resources in the Army, most geared towards soldiers' hectic schedules. As long as you had the two-year degree (or would have it by ETS), had a good record, and could pass the flight physical, your retention NCO would probably be glad to help you get a packet together to apply to Warrant officer/flight school for your second hitch. By then you'd know whether or not you were cut out for the Army and wanted to commit four more years to it as a helo pilot (since you'd served two already, I think you'd be eligible for a four-year second commitment instead of six-year).

With luck and hard work, you could serve your country for six years and ETS with a four-year degree, a couple helo types, a few hundred turbine-multi hours, and the knowledge that you'd done your part (priceless IMHO). You could transfer to a guard unit and start looking for work to build fixed-wing multi time. You'd be golden.

Best of luck with whatever you decide, and let me know if I can help.

Minh

 

[weekendwarrior]

Incorrect! You don't have to have ANY college to get into the Warrant program. They have a program called "High School to Flight School". I know guys that are 19 years old straight out of high school. My stick buddy in primary is 20 years old and will be flying Apache's very soon. Furthermore, I know guys that are 30 with no college and went through the program. Even though it is called High School to Flight School, it doesn't matter if you are straight out of high school or not. It basically means no prior service. But the main thing is you DO NOT need any college to get into this program.

The 60 hours you are referring to could be for a guard position. I know that my state wanted 60 hours to apply, simply because they could be picky with limited amount of slots. Plus, they wanted you to serve 1 year of enlisted. So, it is actually more difficult to get a chance at flying in the guard. You could enlist, do a year, and not get it. With active duty Army, you could go straight in, knowing that you will go to flight school. You go to basic training, get on the bus, and go to WOCS. After 6 weeks of WOCS, you start flight school.

 

[Snakum]

That's pretty cool, and it certainly sounds like an option for BE76. Is it a four-year or six-year commitment? I think the big question mark now might be the physical. BE ... if that sounds like something you'd be interested in you could probably find out about the physical/waiver either here from AD guys, thru a local unit, or possibly the local MEPPS station. I'm not sure I'd trust a recruiter about the medical questions, cause it's not usually something they know about in depth.

Let us know how it turns out if you look into it. My son has been planning on a BS in Business at NCSU for a couple years now, but lately he has a bug up his butt about flying in the military. This is something I'll run by him as well, since it negates the need for him to go to community college for two years first (which is what I told him he'd have to do).

Minh

 

[weekendwarrior]

It's a 6 year commitment after you get your wings, which will amount to about 2 years after you first come in to go basic training. So, it would be safe to say it is an 8 year commitment.

As far as the waiver is concerned, MEPPS, the recruiter, or no one else has any say so over the waiver. He might get a med waiver to get in, but then he has to get a waiver from Fort Rucker to be a pilot. One step at a time. The nice thing about the high school to flight school program is, you wont get stuck in the Army doing something you don't want to do if your medical isn't approved. Since you are applying directly for flight training, all of your medical stuff (including your flight physical) has to be in place before you can even ship out to basic training.