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Flight Training Options/Recommendations

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eagle115

New member
Joined
Dec 5, 2002
Posts
2
I'm in my mid-forties looking/attempting to achieve a long time dream.
(Become a pilot and fly for an airliner.):cool:

Due to my short window of opportunity, I would welcome honest advice, comments, recommendations, etc.

I have checked out two schools, TAB Express and Gulfstream Academy.

Tab Express because their express program (4 to 6 months) is very attractive for someone in my situation, but after reading the many comments about it in this forum I'm very confused.

Gulfstream appears to be a good school but long!

Again if anyone would care to give me some good honest advice or make a recommendation on the best path to it.

Should I archive this dream? or is there still a possibility!
 
Search on "gulfstream" and "tab express" in these forums and you'll probably get most all you need to know.
 
I suppose I could reply to the rest of your question, too. I'm also in my early 40's, and I have similar aspirations. However, I do not envision making it to a major airline, not with the current economic conditions and the number of furloughed pilots, etc., for a long time, if ever.

Nevertheless, I do hope to make it to a regional or cargo outfit fairly quickly. The path that I am pursuing is along the following lines. Go full-time flight training in an accelerated program at a local FBO to get my private, multi-engine, instrument, commercial, and CFI certificates and ratings in 6 months, or less. Structure the program so you get at least 100 hours of multi-engine time (the minimum for many jobs). Also choose a school that will hire you as an instructor when you are finished. Then, build your hours as an instructor. If you can get 70-100 hours/month, then you could attain 1200 hours total flight time (the minimum for many jobs) in about a year. Then, start applying for jobs. This will take about 18-24 months, if you work at a busy flight school.

Alternatively, you could go to a flight school such as Comair, Pan Am, Flight Safety, etc. which will take about 18-24 months and then they supposedly have connections that will help you get an interview. You'll need to look at each and decide for yourself.

Another option, which I am also looking at, is Mesa's PACE program. With 300 prerequisite hours and your CIME ratings, they offer an interview and a good chance of being hired with one of the Mesa Air group airlines after completing the program. The program lasts 19 weeks and is located in Farmington, NM. See the following link: http://www.mesa-air.com/mpd/

Good luck!
 
The dark side of turning 40

My comments will be familiar to regular board readers because I've written so often of my experiences as a career changer. However, this is a new thread, so, to those who've read me before on this issue, please bear with me.

I had loved airplanes since I was child during the '50s and knew that I wanted to learn how to fly one day. I finally did, at age 31 twenty years ago. I found that I really enjoyed flying and worked on advanced ratings, primarily because I wanted to be the best pilot possible. I got my CFI so I could put it on a paying basis. I also was becoming increasingly disenchanted with my work.

In 1987, at age 36, I started hearing about a "pilot shortage." I asked people in the business whose opinions I valued if they thought that I was too old to be a professional pilot. They thought not, so I decided to change careers. I had my degree and all I needed were my multi ratings. In 1988, after 10½ months of sending out tons of stuff to the commuters, freight and elsewhere, I finally got a job instructing at ERAU.

During the next year and a half at Riddle, I finished my ATP and built my total time and multi time. In 1990, the day after Saddam invaded Kuwait, I had my first commuter airline interview. I remember all the talk about how hiring would stop. I did manage three more commuter interviews and a cattle call. I was not hired. Concurrently, or maybe just before Saddam's Kuwait invasion, a recession set in. Times back then were very similar to today, though I think the current times are worse. The Gulf War began the same day in 1991 that I had my Comair interview.

I continued with flight instructing for a few more years. Now, during this same 1989-1991 time frame, there was still some hiring. There is always "some" hiring. Many of my ERAU instructor colleagues with less time than me and only flight instructing experience were getting hired. I was 40. They were nearly half my age. Maybe 23-up. It doesn't take a rocket scientist or a pilot to figure out what was happening with me.

There is no doubt in my mind that I, at 40, was a victim of age discrimination. That's my primary purpose in writing this post to you - to let you know what you'll be facing. All during this same time, I was flooding the regional airlines with resumes, applications, updates, updated apps, and more resumes. I received few responses. There were a couple of commuters to which I continued to apply and update for six years. I know what others will say, that plenty of 40-year-old-plus pilots are hired at the majors and that I don't know what I'm talking about. Believe me, I do. The over-40 pilots whom the majors hire are extremely experienced and qualified people who have flown for years. They may be veteran regional pilots, former military pilots, or those who've flown turbine freight, or corporate. Not a career changer like me with, at the time, 2800 hours of light airplane recip time, obtained primarily through instructing.

There will be others who will say that my timing was bad. I agree, to a point. I might have had a chance if I had started a year earlier. Ten years earlier is what my dad always said. I became ripe when hiring slowed down. Just the same, many of my younger Riddle peers were being hired for the same commuter airline jobs I coveted. Commuter flying was my goal. I knew that I had no chance at the majors. I had two friends, one of whom I had known since I was six, get on with the commuters. I thought that if they could do it, why couldn't I?

You wanted honest advice. Here is is: For the reasons I've just written I don't believe that you have any window of opportunity with the regionals. You are not getting any younger (you are six years younger than me) and there are soooo many people who started long before your who have real, competitive credentials to offer. Not to mention the furloughees awaiting recall. Throw in the mix the expected United bankruptcy. Twelve years ago, I was competing with Eastern and Pan Am pilots whose airlines closed down.

All this doesn't mean that you can't do other things besides airline flying. You might find that you like instructing. The business needs dedicated flight instructors. Some of whom become top management at flight schools and earn a decent living. Others who eventually become pilot examiners and who supplement their income giving practical exams.

You might have a chance for a corporate job. Or flying 135 charters. Maybe you like flying at night and might like freight flying.

The long and short of it is have realistic goals. Best of luck with your decision. Do search other threads for comments about TAB and Gulfstream. Those are altogether separate cans of worms.
 
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It's great when folks are willing to share their experiences in seeking their goals.

I guess two components are important here, good training and some luck ( being in the right place at the right time).

I have some decisions to make!

Thanks for the advise.
 
You wanted honest advice. Here is is: For the reasons I've just written I don't believe that you have any window of opportunity with the regionals.

I'm very wary of that possibility, too, but I thought that regional pilots are traditionally transitory. That is, they are not making a career out of the regional job but just using it to gain hours for a job with a major. The regionals would realize this, too, and so would not expect the pilots to stay with them for many years.

If that's the case, why would the regionals care too much about your age? I could see it with a company (airline or any other type of company) that expects you to stay for many years and wants to recoup their training and other expenses they have invested in you. But if you are not expected to stay more than, say, 4-7 years, why would it matter if you are 25 or 45?

I guess I need more clarification, since I don't want to have unrealistic expectations for myself. For what it's worth, I have mentioned my age to all the pilot mills that I have talked to, including Comair and Pan Am, and they say it's not a problem. But then, I suppose they are not exactly unbiased.
 
Age discrimination

Originally posted by carlos [W]hy would the regionals care too much about your age? I could see it with a company (airline or any other type of company) that expects you to stay for many years and wants to recoup their training and other expenses they have invested in you. But if you are not expected to stay more than, say, 4-7 years, why would it matter if you are 25 or 45 . . . .
Well, my friend, you tell me and we'll both know. I don't see what difference it makes. The truth is, it makes no difference.

Society attaches a stigma to age. It is just another form of discrimination. The stereotype is by a certain age you should have decided what you want to be when you grow up. The savants who infest regional airline H.R. are looking for a certain profile. Any deviation from that profile and your file winds up in the round file. They think that if you were at all serious about flying that you would have taken it up when you were young, and, now that you have, you are some kind of dilletante. They don't have the wherewithal to remove the blinders and consider that an older person might bring something to the table that would benefit the company, e.g. maturity, stability and loyalty. In other words, it's easier for them to "stay within the lines" instead of doing some thinking.

Not to mention that loyalty seems to be a lost concept anymore. And that goes both ways, employer and employee.

Two other theories I've heard are that someone older won't be happy with first-year regional pay - that they'll want more money. Well, who is happy with first-year pay? I knew that I'd be making maybe 14K my first year. It would have been tough but I would have dealt with it. Second-year pay is better.

The other theory is people approaching middle age are more likely to suffer health problems than younger people. Okay, then, if that theory is true, why don't all companies, including airlines who hired their 40 and over pilots years ago, just give these employees early retirement? That is baloney.

I never understood it. I figured a regional would welcome me because I likely would have been a lifetime employee. Maybe they don't want lifetime employees?????? Because, then, they would be forced into paying (costly) retirement benies that they promised to them when they hired in.
 
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I see what you're saying. I tend to think that decisions are always made on rational well-founded reasoning, but that's not the case. Prejudice, stereotypes, fear, and tradition, among other factors, bear a role in the hiring decision, too. Thanks for the insight, Bobbysamd.
 
Idealism v. reality v. cynicism

You're more than welcome. Nope, the longer I've lived the more I realize that there is little rational, well-founded decision-making anymore. Especially in employment hiring. Cynical, yes. But, someone opined in another thread that cynics are, in reality, disappointed and/or closet idealists. That's an insightful observation. I'm sure everyone would like to have a perfect world, but it just ain't gonna happen.

Just the same, you won't know unless you try. I did, and I learned. That's why I write so much on this subject, to remove some of the color off the rose-colored foggles. Realistic aviation career expectations for those of us nearing AARP junk mail days can help temper any disappointment.
 
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