Flight school labor practices

[YaMama]

Like most Mom 'n Pop flight schools, we only get paid when we're billing students, and no benefits (the whole independant contractor spiel). Now the boss wants to start scheduling people for front office duty, to come in regardless of weather or whether they have a student, to handle the phones, dispatch planes to renters, etc. and of course, not wanting to pay us for it. Does this violate labor laws?

 

[Dan CFI/CFII]

Namaste

I do beleive that it certaintly does violate labor laws. I think that this is a pretty common practice for flight schools, and it's wrong.

It's one thing if you volunteer to come in and answer phones/drum up business, but it is an entirely different animal when the company requires you to do something--the instant they demand that you do something, you can demand to be compensated.

Of course, that's in a legal sense, on a practical level, I realize how tough this can be. When this happened to me in the past, I told them to "shove it" (and I used those words exactly once), and they never fired me.

I can be a team player, but realize that most athletes get paid for what they do...

Dan

 

[bobbysamd]

Like most Mom 'n Pop flight schools, we only get paid when we're billing students, and no benefits (the whole independant contractor spiel). Now the boss wants to start scheduling people for front office duty, to come in regardless of weather or whether they have a student, to handle the phones, dispatch planes to renters, etc. and of course, not wanting to pay us for it.

At that point, the employee-independent contractor line is blurred, if not crossed altogether. If the employer asks you to come in to work, you have to be paid.

But, as said above, you are put in between a rock and a hard place. In nearly every job I have held people were expected to put in a certain amount of free time, lest you not be regarded as a team player (though it never won me raises). As an hourly flight instructor, I was never paid extra to audit logbooks (a FlightSafety favorite) or to schedule student activity, etc. Sometimes, I was paid a pittance to attend meetings. As a salaried flight instructor, I wasn't paid extra for anything. It was irritating, but I saw a greater goal.

On the other hand, your employer is trying to get by by having you guys/gals do non-flight-related admin work for free which would be normally done by a receptionist/secretary/counter person he would have to pay. By rights, you should be paid - but there is the rock/hard place issue again.

Hope that helps even a little.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

many of us have been there and fought this fight....

its a waste of time.

bang out the hours and move on.

 

[Snakum]

many of us have been there and fought this fight.... its a waste of time.
bang out the hours and move on.

With all due respect to GS200, right here is the mindset that allows at least 75% of flight schools (in my personal experience) to abuse instructors. As long as it's tolerated, and as long as there's always more fresh meat in desperate need of the hours, you guys will be treated like endentured servants. Over the ten years, off and on, that I've been flying, I've seen schools who treated their instructors with at least a modicum of respect or better (First In Flight - Franklin Co. Airport). to absolute scumbag operators who abused CFIs to the point they had a quarterly turn-over at one time (Triad Air - INT) .

I fully recognize and can appreciate the principle of 'Supply and Demand'. However, I require a certain level of respect as an adult employee, even if I'm merely part-time, or I will look elsewhere. I, like everyone else here, have worked very hard and have sacrificed to gain experience and ratings. And that, along with my self-esteem, is worth too much to accept $7.50 per flight hour on traffic watch and $9.00 per flight hour when teaching, and being required to answer phones and fuel planes for free Monday thru Sunday when I'm not in the air. Operators like that can toss my salad.

Minh

 

[rway36]

Triad Air (INT)

Snakum

It sounds like you did a tour of duty with Triad as well. Some of the biggest dirt bags in the business. I remember the duty instructor assignments where you were responsible for going to the local gas station to fill the fuel truck and having to fill the planes after use. I use to love it when someone would rent the plane and burn fuel and an instuctor would be the next to use it and have to call Piedmont for a fill up. The lady that owns the place, ( cant remember) would just freak out.
Anyway.......we have all been there.........it sucks.........hopefully things will change. But this is where it all begins..........people do anything for flight time.

Have some Morales............try not to sell your soul

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Im not saying "get taken advantage of"...

all I am saying is that you should be able to bang out all the CFI hours you need in 12-18 months. Anything more and you are doing something wrong and costing yourself time.

Dont fight with the flight school owner, look for a better job. My first CFI job "required" office time - the place was slow and I would miss one of my few flight chances b/c I was selling charts....well, I quit after 6 weeks and moved 500 miles away to a place that flew a ton. Left 12 months later with 1000+ CFI hours. DONE.

Flight Instructing will always be a short, painful step to better opportunities.

I always get a kick out of guys wanting to make it anything more....

 

[LAXSaabdude]

..... to hammer all those hours in a period of 12 months... Like I did....If not, your a loser who dosen't work hard enough....... Heh, did I mention that I'm king of the hill and you all are losers??

I need to go fly my big jet.... it makes up for my small Di#k

I be back to look down upon, and mock the rest of you.

Jersey Girls Rule.... where my big ole Labs?... woof, woof!!!!

Looks like someone forgot to log off the hotel's computer!

LAXSaabdude

 

[Snakum]

Heh, did I mention that I'm king of the hill and you all are losers?? I need to go fly my big jet.... it makes up for my small Di#k. I be back to look down upon, and mock the rest of you.

Well ... at least I admire his honesty.

Minh

 

[cargoflyr69]

Its time you and all your fellow flight instructors take a stand with your boss. You should all demand atleast minimum wage for your desk duty. The whole mentality of "bang out the hours and move on" is very scary to me. This is traditionally where folks make their first dollar getting paid to fly vs. paying to fly. People are still willing to do anything including desk work for an hour of flight time. Ive been there and done that and now am looking back from an airline-pilot perspective. If newbie aviation professionals are getting treated like this from day 1 and taking it I wonder what will happen when they do get that job at the regionals... will they sell their brothers down the river so they can fly RJ on the next contract? will they keep on thinking all they have to do is "bang out the hours and move on?" move on to what? If we don't change our attitudes and mindsets now we'll all be flying 747-400's for 56.00 and hour before long. Its been said before that we are our own worst enemies in this industry... its true. In reallity, we are all aviation professionals. Professionals should get paid a decent living wage for the product that we deliver.

my .02

 

[~~~^~~~]

Guys, it gets worse at the regional airline level. We duty in an hour early, sit for hours, sometimes days, waiting for maintenance or weather. We get paid what we fly. Unless the airplane is moving we don't get paid either.

For example, our average line with 75 hours has around 330 hours away from base. Where I come from, you are at work when your car is in the Company's parking lot. Here at ___ we have a scheduled three day trip to Macon, from Atlanta, GA. For three days the pilots are paid about one and a half hours pay. Crew scheduling likes to have pilots around Macon beacuse it is a maintenance base and you are available, if needed....( for free )

Welcome to the world of professional aviation.

~~~^~~~

 

[eddie]

I worked for a horrible flight school, but we got minimum wage for working the desk. I wouldn't let them take advantage that way, next you'll be vacuuming and cleaning the toilets...for free.~~~^~~~ you are getting perdiem. You aren't being asked to check in pax and load the bags, waiting around is just part of the job.

 

[Jungle_Jet]

Bitching won't do you a bit of good, just introduce you to unemployment during a period in which there are precious few jobs availible. Is it illegal what he's doing? Probably, as Bobbysamd said it does violate the independant contractor agreement which clearly states that you work under the employer's guidance, but not direction. If he is constantly ordering you around and requiring you to appear at set times (ans especially without paying you for said work), then he is violating the spirit of the agreement and thus, the law.

I will say that you can file complaints with the local/state authorities, and oftentimes they're anonomous. The IRS might also be interested in this fellow as well.

Remind me why all of our CFI's are career instructors (and compensated as such) and not timebuilders willing to sell their souls for 1000 hours in the pattern.

 

[bobbysamd]

Independent contractor v. employee

If he is constantly ordering you around and requiring you to appear at set times (ans especially without paying you for said work), then he is violating the spirit of the agreement and thus, the law.

(emphasis added)

. . . and violating the letter of the agreement.

Once again, it's a very fine line to walk. Most definitely, this employer has you guys by the balls, and he knows it.

There may be recourse. As I understand it, if you file a complaint with the Wage and Hour Board, upon successful completion of its investigation, you might get back pay for the hours put in, and so will everyone else who has been exploited. I might be wrong, but it's something I've learned, and would be worth investigating. In fact, calling the Wage and Hour board anyway might be worthwhile in terms of clarifying if you are entitled to be paid. I say you are. You might also call your state Department of Labor.

Once more, everyone should read this book: Every Employee's Guide to the Law by Lewin G. Joel III, available at amazon.com and other places. If there is one thing for which people should be loaded for bear, it is employment issues.

 

[miles otoole]

Looks like someone forgot to log off the hotel's computer!

LAXSaabdude

Looks like a certain pilot is not very perceptive. Take a closer look, moron.

 

[LAXSaabdude]

Looks like a certain pilot is not very perceptive.

You, perhaps?

I don't know what the fuc|< I said to pi$$ you off, I was just observing that G200 had two posts of very different tone, the second which looked like an obvious hijacking of his sign in.

Now go bother someone else.

LAXSaabdude.

 

[350DRIVER]

Like most Mom 'n Pop flight schools, we only get paid when we're billing students, and no benefits (the whole independant contractor spiel). Now the boss wants to start scheduling people for front office duty, to come in regardless of weather or whether they have a student, to handle the phones, dispatch planes to renters, etc. and of course, not wanting to pay us for it. Does this violate labor laws?

This is somewhat of a tricky situation since you must be careful not to burn any bridges if you "need" the job and more importantly the flight time and the experience. Is this practice good or in the best interest of the average flight instructor trying to make ends meet?. Absolutely not and it is a disgrace in my opinion that low time instructors seem to continuosly get taken advantage of. The solution? That is a difficult one since many of these mom n pop flight schools have been operating on these bad business practices since day 1. If I were you I would not work any additional times outside of what you are getting compensated for unless you are able to justify it and that you doing so will increase your pay check in some form. This is sometimes easier said than done though. It is a call that only you can make.

You may want to speak to your fellow instructors and come up with some kind of plan to approach the owner(s) of the flight school and see if you are able to change things for the better. It is much more difficult to black ball 4 or 5 CFI's versus just one who steps on the wrong person. With that in mind I don't suggest going at it alone to try and get things changed.

I have seen these sorts of practices going on for a long time now and most of those who are being taken advantage of have no other choice but to do it and just suck it up. Put your time in and get out, look at the bright picture since you won't be doing this forever.

Flight Instructing will always be a short, painful step to better opportunities.

G is pretty much right on the money here. Sometimes it is just easier to "accept" things versus fighting a fight that you will not win. I think the odds are going to be stacked against you. This practice is nothing new.



good luck to you,

3 5 0

 

[JimNtexas]

If the employer sets fixed hours for you, then you are not a contractor and the employer should be withholding taxes and providing you with a W2. If they are paying you on a 1099 rather than a W2 in those cases you should consult the IRS and social security web sites, they each have a simple forms to fill out to claim the credit for these required withholding. The IRS and SSA will then go after the employer for reembursment.

The amounts of money involved are too small for a lawsuit, but you can force them to at least do the correct withholding and pay their share of taxes.