Flight School Help

[skymonkey007]

I currently have my Commercial License with my Instrument Rating and appx 250 hours. I have been "fighting it out in the trenches" (as one pilot on this board wrote) by paying for flight time one rating at a time rather than going to a Big Name school (ie Embry Riddle, Pan Am). I feel that its time for me to take a better step and Im thinking about transfering to a Big Name school.

Everyone at this perticular place im training gets there CFI and CFII and stays there for several years with 1 student per semester. I would love to instruct and thats a good way to build time, but I think this perticular school will not be as usefull as some other places to instruct (so dont think im b*itching about having to instruct for some time before I can jump into a regional. Im willing to instruct and pay my dues)

Of course I dont want to "pay" my way into an airline job either by thinking I can borrow some money and get to it faster. I just would like a little information on the steps some of you guys took from Commercial License, to where you are now. Should I stay at a local FBO, or go to a credited flight school? Im afraid at a Local FBO ill be instructing forever and ever not getting much multi time and never being able to leave. But with a Big Name school Im affraid of not getting any respect or a job because alot of people I talk to think that you dont deserve anything because you had the money to go to a Big Name school. (dont know if its bitterness or jelousy or what, but they would be my student loans that I would have to work off).

Any suggestions on which route I should take?? Flyings what I want to do and I know it takes small steps to get somewhere, especially right now. Just want what could be best in my interest,
Thanks for your input,

Rick

P.S. I take this post seriously, I didnt take any stabs at any one so if your going to post negative remarks that have no value, dont bother.

 

[CFIIinSAN]

Riddle does not = "buying" your way in

 

[exphojump]

Take the first flying job you can find. Make sure the aircraft are in reasonable shape and the last pilot's license wasn't suspended. Location is critical, try to find a flying job at a field with a lot of multi-engine aircraft, and with access to the people who fly them.

Common scam: a flight school with one ragged out aztec/apache and an owner promising you lots of multi-time. If your lucky you may get 30 hours in two years in that aztec/apache.

A better opportunity: a flight school at an airport with 20+ mulit-engine aircraft and an FBO where you see the owners or operators on a regular basis.

If you truly like instructing then also use it as a time builder, if you don't truly like instructing don't short change your students. Always work in their best interest and it will pay off, possible corporate job.

Time building opportunities: jump pilot, traffic patrol, plane rides, aerial photography, ferry pilot to name a few.

Even if a flight instructing job is not your first choice, keep your eyes open. With some experience instructing you can land a better job at an airport with more opportunities.

Good Luck

 

[Data]

Get 32,000 and go to ATP. You'll get 140 hours in the seminole and 10 in the 172. Ask the other schools if they give you that much for that little. Then, kiss some a$$, and get a job instructing with ATP or any small flight school. You will be a much better pilot for having instructed and even better for having as much multi time as you'll get. I'm not saying the other schools aren't good, ER, Pan Am, fine choices, but don't expect to get as much multi (how long does it take to instruct in the multi at the other schools?) and don't expect to get it as quickly. Just my 32000 cents.

 

[labbats]

You mean 3,200,000 cents?

 

[Data]

You mean 3,200,000 cents?

Yeah, that too!

 

[exphojump]

Alternative paths,

Get a job as a scheduler at a regional airline. We have several line pilots at ACAI that were schedulers/dispatchers. One used to jumpseat to EWR all the time to fly traffic watch on his days off from dispatching.

Being a scheduler is a crappy job but usually you work 4 10 hour shifts. This gives you three days a week to build time and travel benefits can come in very handy. ACAI has a scholarship program for employees to become dispatchers.

At 10 bucks an hour in IAD you won't be able to live comfortably. Getting a crashpad with some pilots is a good way to build connections and find a cheap place to sleep at night.

Also...

If you are near a large jump zone. Get a job packing parachutes, some places it pays pretty well and once your in, you can get a few hours multi a week. DANGER if you become addicted to jumping out of airplanes you may not want to fly them anymore.

Don't get too much into debt, you could get a decent paying job in 3 years or 10 years, keep flying and something will surface....eventually.

I've flown with 23 year old 121 Captains and with FOs that are over 40 and it is their 5th airline(furlough) in 10 years. It's a very strange and volatile industry.

Keep flying,

 

[OnTheDole]

As long as you don't do PFT I doubt anyone will make any comment about what school you went to or worked at. Doing it at an FBO or at an academy is simply trading money for time. You'll still have the experience in the end, just how long will it take you to get there. I worked at Pan Am, I went to school at another "academy". I went to work at Pan Am for the flight times. In a year and a half I got 1400 hours with 400 me and made enough $ to actually acrue some savings, that wouldn't have been possible at many other places (I worked at an FBO six months before pan am and only got 250 hours). Right now the market is flooded with instructors so go finish your training were you want to instruct, its about the only way these days. Every academy will get you more time than an fbo and probobly pay a bit better. They will also have programs for someone with your time to fall into and finish quickly. Pan Am see's a bunch of guys in your shoes that come in and do their CFI/CFII/MEI and a couple of other programs then get a job instructing with the same results as my time spent there. These academys may also help you with job placement. Good luck, remember senority cost more dough in the end than the beginning.

 

[singlespeed]

Skymonkey007

I came through a couple of years when things were a lot different. I got my ratings at a FBO and have no regrets. I also worked at that FBO after that and in nine months as a CFI with no MEI I got a job as a 135 operator as a VFR only pilot.

The FBO I worked at had wealthy clients and that’s the key. The people I would fly with always wanted to go to cool places on their cross countries and always pay for a good lunch and sometimes take you out on their boats at the destination. At the time there were too few CFI’s and a lot of students fighting over your time.

The multi thing is a big deal. Find a place where you can fly a twin. Central Air at MKC has a program set up for low time pilots. I am not sure if its considered PFT I never had to do this but there are people on this board who did it and or worked there who can tell you more about it and it goes something like this. Pay $2000 for the time in a twin commander for your check out (it may be referred to as PFT) then $20 an hr there after. Everyone who does this gets the job at 1200 hrs if there is a position open and there usually is. People who go there are MEI’s (and you have to be) who have close to 1200hrs. Here is something to think about. If you spend 130/hr on a POS twin for 100 hrs that comes to well you can do the math verses $2000 + 20/hr times 100. The numbers may have change in the last 5 years or so I may not be up on all the current info.

I did not and would PFT at a commuters that’s BS paying for a job.
I do not know how people veiw this mentioned above you can post anther thread to find out. But like I said things are a lot different now days and you have to spend cash on ratings and hrs in aircraft to meet the insurance mins. Everyone I know, paid money for multi time and single time that’s how you get ratings and hrs. Every 135 operator requires 1200 and 100 multi. After that its all you to get that turbine job. Good luck.

 

[skymonkey007]

Wow, thanks for all the positive feedback. I just got done touring Pan Am FLight Academy in Phoenix AZ, it looks like a great school with some great opportunities. I plan on checking out ATP also. I have another question too. I want to stay away from PFT from what Ive heard about it, but isnt that what im doing going through training? Im Paying for Training now? I was checking out Regional Airline Academy in Florida, and They claimed to get 15 people hired at Colgan Airlines, but from what Ive read, Colgan isnt unionized, and they are Paying to fly for Colgan. How do you get around PFT? I dont know much about it, but thanks again for you knowlege. Good to know how pilots look out for each other,

Rick

 

[stillaboo]

Do a search for 'Pay For Training'. This issue has been discussed ad naseum here already. There's plenty of info already posted for you to be more than totally informed.

-Boo!

You could start with this one:

"http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?threadid=19377&highlight=PFT"

 

[bobbysamd]

P-F-T

How do you get around PFT? I dont know much about it, but thanks again for you knowlege. Good to know how pilots look out for each other

It's easy to get around P-F-T. Just say "no."

I could also say, friends don't let friends P-F-T.

The long and short of P-F-T is (1) if you must pay for your training as a condition of employment and (2) if the training for which you are paying is strictly for that company and no certificates or ratings issue after you complete that training, then it is P-F-T.

You do not have to countenance P-F-T. Build your experience one step at a time, apply to the commuters as you near their requirements, be patient, and you will be called.

Do begin your education about P-F-T by reading the thread to which Stillaboo referred you. You can run further searches of the board on P-F-T and you will receive more information about it than you will ever need.

Hope that helps.

 

[climbhappy]

bobbysamd, when say to someone "friends don't let friends P-F-T," then aren't you,(out of self serving motives) trying to put on voodoo hex on the guy?

that quote serves to instill FEAR in the guy...

in fairness to you, you did say to to educate oneself..

so many on here are in a position to advise to younger, less informed ones.....

this business has RISKS, like any others, you certainly cannot with accuracy predict anyone's career path based simply on a negative stereotype of PFT. Is there any credible data to suggest one is impeded by PFTing. Or is it just a bias created to dilute the already plentiful ranks of Leo dicaprio wannabees?

 

[acaTerry]

I have to agree with Bobbysamd. There's already enough pilot-rape by managements going on right now in this age of concessions. To PFT in this day and age is just making it easier for MGTs to not only take more from those who are in, but also to make it harder for those who are up-and-coming.
There are better ways to spend your money towards getting in. Just don't let the road to get there wear you down.