Flight Options Interview/Questions

[Mason]

I have an interview with FLOPS in the near future. I've read most all of the doom and gloom on this board so before everyone starts telling me that I'm an idiot for showing interest, I'd like to get some feedback. There are pros and cons associated and for me the pros are:

Type rating
Able to relocate to a desirable location
Better pay

Cons: Flex schedule (how long are can you expect to be on this)
Long upgrade
QOL issues, everything that I've read on this board has been a negative
rant so I'd like to know if any current employees have anything positive to say.

I don't know yet whether or not I'll take the job if it is offered, I'm sure I'll get more info once the interview is over.

What do you guys think? The type and ATP are fairly strong incentives that I believe would greatly improve opportunities if things really started to implode.

Have at it!

 

[On Your Six]

I have an interview with FLOPS in the near future. I've read most all of the doom and gloom on this board so before everyone starts telling me that I'm an idiot for showing interest, I'd like to get some feedback. There are pros and cons associated and for me the pros are:

Type rating
Able to relocate to a desirable location
Better pay

Cons: Flex schedule (how long are can you expect to be on this)
Long upgrade
QOL issues, everything that I've read on this board has been a negative
rant so I'd like to know if any current employees have anything positive to say.

I don't know yet whether or not I'll take the job if it is offered, I'm sure I'll get more info once the interview is over.

What do you guys think? The type and ATP are fairly strong incentives that I believe would greatly improve opportunities if things really started to implode.

Have at it!

Just curious... How long would you estimate for a newhire to upgrade going forward (with the high attrition) and what's the likelihood that a newhire will go to the Beechjet vs. the Hawker 800XP or the X? Also, are any of the XPs Collins equipped (XP-Cs)?

 

[KSUPILOT]

run for your life! You will neer upgrade. Well there is a faint oppurtunity right when the doors are getting chained down and the desperately need you.

 

[minimums]

New Hires

New hires will most likely go into the beechjet (400XP) or a slim chance for the Hawker 800XP. Do not expect the Cit X or the Legacy, these are higher seniority seats, even as a co-pilot.

Expect the upgrade to be a minimum of 5 years, that is what is currently taking place, maybe longer. However, attrition is occuring at an exponential rate, so maybe not that long.

No one really knows about the flex schedule. Rumor has it as a 21 day schedule with a guarantee of 9 hard days off in a row. Scheduling will call you out for a minimum of 4 days out or up to 8 days out followed by a few days off (3 or more). This is the rumor as I have heard it.

The type rating and ATP would be valuable in today's market, however, expect to sign a year training contract for the type. If you leave early, you will pay a pro-rated amount to the company. Types cost around $12k from what we are told to give you an idea.

There are pro's and con's to the company and the pilot group is in the midst of an organizing campaign.

I suggest you form your own opinion. Go to the interview, ask MANY questions and form your decision from that. Only YOU are familiar with your situation and you will have to do what's best for you in regards to taking a job if offered.

You may like it or you may not. Fractional flying is similiar to charter and you will fly a lot and look forward to your days off.

Just ask questions & good luck.

 

[FISHINGOR]

Up Grade In 5 Years, Only I Wish. I Have 5 Years Here And Maybe 2-3 More For Upgrade. With The Pay Scale What Ever Aircraft You Get In Beginning Is The Best Bet, Stay There And You Get Pay Rises. You Move Between Aircraft And You Get Locked Into Paying For Your Type Rating Because You Get Held At Same Pay For 1-2 Years. Over A Career You Will Pay For Every Type You Get At Flops.

 

[Doug Parker]

Is Swift still flying all of your CX's ???

What happened to the chick that took out 2 Legacies ???

 

[On Your Six]

Is Swift still flying all of your CX's ???

What happened to the chick that took out 2 Legacies ???

Good question. Have many FLOPS pilots actually transferred over to the X? Which aircraft did they tend to fly before - the CL601, F50, etc. (higher seniority aircraft)? How many X's are expected on the property by the end of 2005 and into the future?

 

[minimums]

tit for tat

Up Grade In 5 Years, Only I Wish. I Have 5 Years Here And Maybe 2-3 More For Upgrade.

Notice I said a "minimum" of 5 years, maybe longer.

We are operating 1 Citation X with our crews. I am not sure how many X's we have or will have. It all depends on sales, the economy, etc.

Most of our larger cabin guys, ie, Challenger, F-50, etc. are either going to the X & Legacy or to the Hawker. It all depends on seniority.

The Legacy cruncher is still employeed, probably in line for promotion from what we hear about her. Honestly, don't know, but she is still here.

 

[guido411]

New hires will most likely go into the beechjet (400XP) or a slim chance for the Hawker 800XP. Do not expect the Cit X or the Legacy, these are higher seniority seats, even as a co-pilot.

I've seen the company do many low life things, but I can't see them hiring a new guy into the Hawker when there are many guys in the BJ, CJ, and King Air that have ther bids in right now. I'd expect to see some member of management lynched in the CGF parking lot if that happened, so expect the BJ. I would assume that it would be into the "new" Beechjet program so if it makes a person feel better, go ahead and call it a Hawker.

Also, for Mason, you said "able to relocate to a desirable location" was a pro. WTF do you mean by that? Are you convincing yourself that since the company is making the next hire-ons be from ATL that it's a desireable place? The allure of this job used to be that you could live ANYWHERE you wanted, not relocate to ATL or BNA. Just curious what you mean by what you said.

When asked by anybody how I like my job, I tell them my JOB is great, I love the type of flying we do and where we go and it even gives me a little satisfatcion when we do a good job of ratifying schedulings FUBARs. But the constant uncertainty and fear that comes from each new email from "Corporate Communications" makes me realize this is far from a career.

One more thing, don't think that a type rating is going to save you if "things implode". If things implode that puts probably more than 500 typed BE40 pilots on the street. What can you do that sets you apart from 500 other people with the same credentials? Don't come here unless you're convinced FLOPs will survive. If we fold we are ALL in deep $hit.

 

[Mason]

Also, for Mason, you said "able to relocate to a desirable location" was a pro. WTF do you mean by that? Are you convincing yourself that since the company is making the next hire-ons be from ATL that it's a desireable place? The allure of this job used to be that you could live ANYWHERE you wanted, not relocate to ATL or BNA. Just curious what you mean by what you said.

ATL is where I want to be

 

[Frac Rat]

Here are the pros:

Hi Mason, I'm a current FLOPS beechjet guy who's been around for awhile. There are plenty of cons to deal with here, but since you asked for the positives, here they are as I see them:

- typed from day 1
- pay is competitive in the fractional industry
- if you like to live near ATL you won't have to move
- usually more crew meals than you can eat (still free for now)
- if you go to the new aircraft program the equipment is pretty good
- 99% of the folks you fly with will be friendly people who like to fly jets
and have a good time
- you will get lots of good experience flying around in the high density North
East Corridor Toilet Bowl in all kinds of weather
- 401k and dental plan are ok
- plenty of free booze in the stock lockers to help pass those many long
lonely nights in the hotel in BFE

That's all I can think of right now, my head is kind of fuzzy (got to a stock locker today)
Good luck in your aviation career, hope you don't end up in the fractionals for life, but it's a wat to get a typeif you're desperate
the rat

 

[RawData]

Not here

Mason,
You would be better off trying to get on with FlightWorks in Marietta.
Lookie here, I've got 7 types and 15K hrs and came to the former TRavel Air for the QOL. This job cost me many great opportunities during my tenure and I believed what was told to me at the interviews and cut my salary to 1/3 of what I made to make 1/2 of what I made and have been at the same salary for 3 years. And at the bottom 1/3 of the Beechjet Captain's seniority after nearly 5 years.Also I will lose my domicile that was the biggest reason I came to work.
Yea, I'm looking for a job and there are quite a few out there for people with my experience but not in the location I wish to be. This place is no longer for the longhaul or even a shorthaul.
My last FO has been here 2 years and he is 80 from the bottom of the list out of 870 some pilots with no PIC seat in sight for years. He has a wife and kids and a ton of good experience and the capabilities to match.
When it goes down you do not want to have to compete with the crews we have on the street. Find something local, go talk with Scott Beal at Flightworks Not the best money but good people and great experience, they run a good operation and you won't be wondering if you still have a job day to day.
This place is one accident from a shutdown.

 

[FracCapt]

And at the bottom 1/3 of the Beechjet Captain's seniority after nearly 5 years.Also I will lose my domicile that was the biggest reason I came to work.

You may also want to take a look at the new manual they sent to you on CD. Specifically, the section on schedules. It says that we'll be on 8/7, unless the company needs dictate otherwise...and in that case, they'll ask for volunteers, but if there aren't enough, they'll assign the flex schedule by seniority. Those at or near the bottom of the seniority list of each fleet/seat may be in for a rude suprise.

 

[Mason]

Thanks for the feedback. Do the majority of you guys think the company isn't going to make it long haul? That seems to be the vibe I get from some, if so why?

FYI-I was told in a phone interview that upgrades were around 3 years---according to this board that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[tubelcane]

Mason,

3 year upgrade. Doubt it. My year 2 anniversary is 2 months away, I can't even get in the Hawker right seat. This company will not make it with the current management. They are pissing off the 2 groups of people this company needs to stick around. The pilots, and more importantly the owners. If you want to live in ATL, don't mind signing a training contract, working a flex schedule, and not upgrading for awhile come right in the water is fine. However, the pilots are trying to unionize here. Not working great yet, we have a bunch of kool-aid drinkers. And the owners are leaving faster than pilots are. The poop is about to hit the fan as management is taking away things left and right and as of July 1 its really gonna get ugly. So if you don't mind coming to the most troubled company in the industry, we are the place for you. Otherwise try Citationshares. Quicker upgrade and better pay over there.

 

[On Your Six]

Mason,

3 year upgrade. Doubt it. My year 2 anniversary is 2 months away, I can't even get in the Hawker right seat. This company will not make it with the current management. They are pissing off the 2 groups of people this company needs to stick around. The pilots, and more importantly the owners. If you want to live in ATL, don't mind signing a training contract, working a flex schedule, and not upgrading for awhile come right in the water is fine. However, the pilots are trying to unionize here. Not working great yet, we have a bunch of kool-aid drinkers. And the owners are leaving faster than pilots are. The poop is about to hit the fan as management is taking away things left and right and as of July 1 its really gonna get ugly. So if you don't mind coming to the most troubled company in the industry, we are the place for you. Otherwise try Citationshares. Quicker upgrade and better pay over there.

Good point about Citationshares - and I think ATL is one of their domiciles.

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

Don't plan on getting hired into anything but the Beechjet. Its happened in the past and there was an uprising, they won't make that mistake again.

The upgrade won't be three years. I'm over 3 1/2 years and there's no upgrade in sight. We are talking at least three more years. As they phase out the Citation and King Air fleets, those PICs will filter into the beechjets and take any available upgrade slots. Those fleets won't be completely phased out for three or four more years, so there probably won't be any new bids until then.

As was previously mentioned, management is pissing off the pilots and owners. If the owners leave, this company will tank. Pilots leaving is a given, its a mass exodus right now. I haven't met a pilot in four months that's not actively looking for another job. Higher Power is getting great business from us.

I won't even get started with the flex schedule. They make it to be advantageous for the pilots, but it won't happen. They find a way to screw up the 8/7 sked, they will have a hayday with a flex sked. Its ridiculus.

Good luck with the interview, if that's what you really want. I wouldn't recommend this job to my worst enemies.

 

[FAcFriend]

do you think if the co folds the pilots will be assimilated into nja

 

[Frac Daddy]

Thanks for the feedback. Do the majority of you guys think the company isn't going to make it long haul? That seems to be the vibe I get from some, if so why?

FYI-I was told in a phone interview that upgrades were around 3 years---according to this board that doesn't seem to be the case.

Who told you 3 years for upgrade?

 

[Frac Daddy]

Up Grade In 5 Years, Only I Wish. I Have 5 Years Here And Maybe 2-3 More For Upgrade. With The Pay Scale What Ever Aircraft You Get In Beginning Is The Best Bet, Stay There And You Get Pay Rises. You Move Between Aircraft And You Get Locked Into Paying For Your Type Rating Because You Get Held At Same Pay For 1-2 Years. Over A Career You Will Pay For Every Type You Get At Flops.

I gotta ask: I have been here just over 5 years ago as well and have been captain for four of them. There are also many junior to me that are PIC as well. Why do you see 2-3 more years to upgrade for you? Are you waiting for the Hawker? No flame, just curious.