Flight Options Bonus

[clickclickboom]

Guys and Gals I really hate to burst your bubble but all of those cash infusions that have come from mother raytheon are coming to an end. It's okay to offset a $115,000,000 loss for flops in 2005 when Raytheon made nearly 1 billion dollars. Now Raytheon will have to deal with customer service for selling missles and guidance systems to the military. They will not have to be worried about the possible backlash associated with shutting down flops and pissing off a bunch of big money people that may have bought one of their aircraft. Wasnt Richard Santoulli former Goldman sachs and still on the board of directors?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but Flops is truly SCREWED now.

Think about it the Board of Directors will get together and say okay boys time to shut down Flight Options. But sir we can offset our losses with the sale of new Hawker 400 ( sorry ) and 800XP aircraft. We make over 4 million dollars on an 800 wont that be bad for business? No Timmy we sold all of raytheons GA assets to Goldman Sachs. Oh thats right. Okay guys sign the petitions and lets send them a 90 day letter of intent. But what about our invested money we will lose millions on the deal? Dont worry son at this point there is nothing to sell we have been trying to do that for 5 years now. Lets set up an independant management company or sign a partnership with Net Jets Management. We will send certified letters to all owners offering sub prime rates and buyout offers on the existing aircraft. Whatever we cant sell we will slowly put on the market under Raytheons Pre Owned Program or better yet lets call that santoulli guy and see if he wants a package deal on those 20 or so 2 year old Hawkers left over..




It's a real shame you are a great group I wish you the best


Hawker Beechcraft Names To Live On Under New Owner
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Raytheon announced this morning a $3.3 billion “definitive agreement” that will result in the sale of Raytheon Aircraft to Onex Partners of Toronto and GS Capital Partners (an affiliate of New York-based Goldman Sachs) and establish Hawker Beechcraft Corp. The deal includes Raytheon Aircraft assets in Wichita and Salina, Kan.; Little Rock, Ark.; and Dallas, as well as its FBO/service center network in the U.S., UK and Mexico. According to officials, the aircraft unit’s current management staff will remain. The transaction does not include fractional provider Flight Options or Raytheon Airline Aviation Services, which manages the Beechcraft 1900D program. Raytheon Company had announced last July that it was “reviewing strategic alternatives for Raytheon Aircraft Company” and three major bidders quickly emerged, including the Carlyle Group and Cerberus Capital Management. The sale, subject to the usual conditions and regulatory approvals, is expected to close within six months.[/FONT]

 

[Freedom]

Your Motives are Suspect:

Guys and Gals I really hate to burst your bubble but all of those cash infusions that have come from mother raytheon are coming to an end. It's okay to offset a $115,000,000 loss for flops in 2005 when Raytheon made nearly 1 billion dollars. Now Raytheon will have to deal with customer service for selling missles and guidance systems to the military. They will not have to be worried about the possible backlash associated with shutting down flops and pissing off a bunch of big money people that may have bought one of their aircraft. Wasnt Richard Santoulli former Goldman sachs and still on the board of directors?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but Flops is truly FUUUUCKED now

It's a real shame you are a great group I wish you the best


Hawker Beechcraft Names To Live On Under New Owner
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Raytheon announced this morning a $3.3 billion “definitive agreement” that will result in the sale of Raytheon Aircraft to Onex Partners of Toronto and GS Capital Partners (an affiliate of New York-based Goldman Sachs) and establish Hawker Beechcraft Corp. The deal includes Raytheon Aircraft assets in Wichita and Salina, Kan.; Little Rock, Ark.; and Dallas, as well as its FBO/service center network in the U.S., UK and Mexico. According to officials, the aircraft unit’s current management staff will remain. The transaction does not include fractional provider Flight Options or Raytheon Airline Aviation Services, which manages the Beechcraft 1900D program. Raytheon Company had announced last July that it was “reviewing strategic alternatives for Raytheon Aircraft Company” and three major bidders quickly emerged, including the Carlyle Group and Cerberus Capital Management. The sale, subject to the usual conditions and regulatory approvals, is expected to close within six months.[/FONT]

You seem to keep implying that you are Former Flight Options and that those of us here are now Fu-ked. Well, if you read carefully, Mother Raytheon still owns Flight Options. Why? Because we are a frigging Cash Cow.

No Company goes out and spends the Money that Raytheon has on high dollar Outside Legal Council such as Ford and Harrison, unless they have a precious asset they are wanting to Protect.

Having Surrogates such as yourself out there spreading Doom and Gloom feeds directly into the FUD Campaign (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) that our Management hopes will freeze us into inaction in terms of coming together as a Pilot Group and demanding our Fair Share of the Pie.

Why would the Company be playing so many games if there wasn't a valuable asset to protect?

Think about it.

Freedom.

 

[clickclickboom]

You seem to keep implying that you are Former Flight Options and that those of us here are now Fu-ked. Well, if you read carefully, Mother Raytheon still owns Flight Options. Why? Because we are a frigging Cash Cow.

No Company goes out and spends the Money that Raytheon has on high dollar Outside Legal Council such as Ford and Harrison, unless they have a precious asset they are wanting to Protect.

Having Surrogates such as yourself out there spreading Doom and Gloom feeds directly into the FUD Campaign (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) that our Management hopes will freeze us into inaction in terms of coming together as a Pilot Group and demanding our Fair Share of the Pie.

Why would the Company be playing so many games if there wasn't a valuable asset to protect?

Think about it.

Freedom.

I truly hope for everyones sake you are correct. I offered my personal opinion on what I think is headed your way and you responded exactly how the teamsters in their newsletters train you to.

Surrogate to Flops Management?? You have got to be kidding I extended my middle finger in a high salute a long time ago to flops.

The pieces are all starting to fall together.. Remember the so called cash infusion. I remember some fud surrounding that a while back and the intel i got was that Raytheon was funding us for another 3 years.. Well that was about 2 years ago. Look at the timeframes that ********************ringa put out for completion of the fleet renewal plan and restructuring..

Cash Cow? Explain the millions in losses year after year starting from the good ole days when i started there with Ken Ricci? When raytheon came in Ricci was literally within a few weeks on running out of money since then the annual losses have almost doubled each year..

I dont spread fud I just look at every possible source of information and discuss reality.

 

[On Your Six]

I could see a possible merger with Netjets (dispose of older aircraft and keep the owners). But I doubt the new company would want to flood the market with used airframes when it is trying to sell new shares... You never know in this business...

 

[TurboHonda]

Suspicious

Clickclickboom,

Other than being just a peach of a guy, what's all this to you? You're not responding to a thread. You're starting a thread.

I agree with Freedom. Your actions are definitely suspect.

FUD. Pure and simple.

 

[jonjuan]

I could see a possible merger with Netjets (dispose of older aircraft and keep the owners). But I doubt the new company would want to flood the market with used airframes when it is trying to sell new shares... You never know in this business...

No way the typical FLOPs owner will want to pay anywhere near what NJA charges in management fees. FLOPs grew very rapidly by selling very old aircraft, very cheaply. FLOPs owners are not the same owner as a NJA owner. Why would NJA want the headaches with having to operate even more worthless 400s? Best bet for NJA is the FLOPs owner sell his plane through FLOPs and buys at full rack rate for a full 10 years at NJA if he wants to stay with fractional service.

 

[Publishers]

I am pretty sure that this was a case of "we do not want those two aspects of the business". This is especially true because the side deal was that the aircraft company would work with Options for a minimum of 3 years after the close. They also did not want the commuter business.
I think the future of FO is really up in the --pardon the expression--air. The original plan is by the wayside, they now have an owner that does not want them, an owner that will make little investment in them, and yet there is little reason other than a firesale for Netjets or anyone else to get interested.

 

[clickclickboom]

Clickclickboom,

Other than being just a peach of a guy, what's all this to you? You're not responding to a thread. You're starting a thread.

I agree with Freedom. Your actions are definitely suspect.

FUD. Pure and simple.

Because in the 7 years i worked for flops i gave blood, sweat, and tears to the company. Anytime the phone rang, Anytime they needed us to go the extra mile we did it.. What did we get? screwed.

It was hard to leave what could have been one of the best jobs in aviation..

All I did was paste the paragraph that was in my AIN online email today. I went further to offer my opinion after working there for 7 years where i feel the future of flops is heading.

I am not here to solely bust your union drive by posting news and interjecting my opinion here on flight info. I have at least a dozen good friends still at flops and I truly feel for them. I have been fortunate to secure a better job and I hope they can do the same.

Do you guys deserve a contract? You Bet

Do you guys deserve 6 figures? Absolutely

Do you guys deserve to receive vacation when you bid for it? YUP

Do you deserve fair work rules and better benefits that dont cost you almost $3000 more next year? YES!

I sent in my card, Got my teamsters newsletters, and still have the tie tack that they sent me in the mail..

Call it fud but I beleive in realities of life and the abc123 economics that drive business in this country.

At what point will you think that this whole thing is not just a fud tactic? When you go to enter your code at the front door and the security guy tells you that the building is locked? Or you walk out to your plane and find a chain around the nosewheel?

 

[Freedom]

I find it interesting..............

That just at a time when we have a Management Team trying to sell us that they have too many Pilots (yet constantly asking for overtime from us), that we have this highly generous, wonderful human being, so willing to help spread the Fear Pill among those of us that have decided to stay and fight.

His tactic is to create FUD. Why? To help each of us poor lost soles? I doubt it. If he was here for some 7 years as he says, he must have made some good friends along the way. If he truly believed in what he was saying, he would be spending his time trying to help his buddies find employment elsewhere, instead of wasting time, in fact, starting threads, designed to create Fear.

I mean think about it. If he really believed what he was stating, why would he be encouraging everyone to leave, thereby creating a more competitive job market for his buddies. Wouldn't he just be concentrating on helping them out, not all of us?

I ain't buying it. And the fact that he keeps coming back here to justify his position when he has no dog in this fight, says to me even more that he is just a Managment Pawn, paid or unpaid, it doesn't matter.

Nice try. But just like during the vote for Union Representation, after you've been lied to for as many years as our Pilots have, you get pretty good at sniffing out the Rat.

Clickclickboom: Me's think you've already blown your load.

Freedom

 

[guido411]

No way the typical FLOPs owner will want to pay anywhere near what NJA charges in management fees. FLOPs grew very rapidly by selling very old aircraft, very cheaply. FLOPs owners are not the same owner as a NJA owner. Why would NJA want the headaches with having to operate even more worthless 400s? Best bet for NJA is the FLOPs owner sell his plane through FLOPs and buys at full rack rate for a full 10 years at NJA if he wants to stay with fractional service.

Juan,

Judging by your sporadic history of posts (frax, regionals, majors) it appears to me you seem to feed wherever you find you have a nugget of info to spread. The problem with nuggets is there's usually a whole turd in the bowl already but the nugget can't see it thru the sphincter. Most of the old used owners are either gone or ponied up the dough to stay in the program. As for the "worthless" 400, how is it that Flops owners have bought into the things for years? How has Flops made it the bread and butter? And why did I, only a few tours ago, run into a NJ crew that was sitting around because their owner ONLY wanted a 400? I'm not saying the 400 is perfect but it's better than a lot of people who have never sat in one make it out to be.

And for you merger conspirists, get a life. It must be December again. Everybody has heard how Flops is going under or merging since the day after the Travel Air merger. Yadda yadda yadda. Some of us decide to throw caution to the wind and fight for a cause, rather than throw stones. Click click, thanks for the heads up, don't know what I would do without you.

 

[dime line]

Hey, If we go out of business.....so be it.......I'll ride the wave till it ends. but i've been here a long time as well, and i"m not gonna let this management get away with what there doing

 

[guido411]

Cash Cow? Explain the millions in losses year after year starting from the good ole days when i started there with Ken Ricci? When raytheon came in Ricci was literally within a few weeks on running out of money since then the annual losses have almost doubled each year..

Explain? Easy. . .accounting. You tell ME how NetJets posted profits after giving pilots a 40% pay increase? Accounting. NetJets hid money in Europe, and built US infrastructure and showed losses during negotiations. Flops does it even easier, follow these steps.

1) Left hand asks right hand for money
2) Right hand reaches into pocket and grabs money
3) Right hand gives money to left hand
4) Lef hand puts money in pocket.
5) Right hand reports robbery, makes insurance claim

. . .or in this case right hand claims losses and pays less tax.

Accounting

 

[Ultra Grump]

And why did I, only a few tours ago, run into a NJ crew that was sitting around because their owner ONLY wanted a 400?

Must be the only owner in the program with that attitude.

 

[clickclickboom]

That just at a time when we have a Management Team trying to sell us that they have too many Pilots (yet constantly asking for overtime from us), that we have this highly generous, wonderful human being, so willing to help spread the Fear Pill among those of us that have decided to stay and fight.

His tactic is to create FUD. Why? To help each of us poor lost soles? I doubt it. If he was here for some 7 years as he says, he must have made some good friends along the way. If he truly believed in what he was saying, he would be spending his time trying to help his buddies find employment elsewhere, instead of wasting time, in fact, starting threads, designed to create Fear.

I mean think about it. If he really believed what he was stating, why would he be encouraging everyone to leave, thereby creating a more competitive job market for his buddies. Wouldn't he just be concentrating on helping them out, not all of us?

I ain't buying it. And the fact that he keeps coming back here to justify his position when he has no dog in this fight, says to me even more that he is just a Managment Pawn, paid or unpaid, it doesn't matter.

Nice try. But just like during the vote for Union Representation, after you've been lied to for as many years as our Pilots have, you get pretty good at sniffing out the Rat.

Clickclickboom: Me's think you've already blown your load.

Freedom

Freedom I am not here to argue with you.. You win I am exposed I received an email from Michael himself asking me to post the press release from ain about the raytheon sale. He then asked me to put some spin on it to bring your guys down and spread FUD. I said okay Mikey no problem

I posted public info that I thought of particular interest. Look at my posting history I am hardly a management groupie planted to bring you guys down..

Nothing would make me happier than to see you guys pull this together and make a statement to management. Scheeringa and his goons are nothing but a bunch of circus buffoons.

 

[ITFL]

Hey Click-Click

My god that chick is hot, kind of distracting on day eight. That being said, you are full of sh*t. Face it dude you bailed and now you are trying to reconcile things. Why else would you devote time to our plight. Its not your problem any more. Tell you what, I'll buy you a drink and watch you cry in your beer when we get a industry standard contract, with the pay, bennies, and respect that comes with it. Until then why don't you go about your business and shut your fuc*ing hole.

Hope begins in the dark, the stubborn hope that if you just show up and try to do the right thing, the dawn will come. You wait and watch and work: you don't give up. ~ Anne Lamott

 

[ghostrider64]

I hate to say this but RTS would slit the throat of his forst born if it would make him another Billion....Here's the way I see it...

RTS does have a direct link to Goldman Sachs. Not to mention all of his friends there have shares at NJA. They all love the green.

First thing that happens is NJA gets preferential pricing on all Raytheon aircraft purchases, READ 4000.....

Second, because RTS doesn't want to piss off "prospective" owners they don't fold FLOPS. But what does happen is FLOPS no longer gets any cash infusions and are told to make it on their own. If they make it that's great for the bottom line. If they don't RTS gets the list of "netjets" qualified customers from FLOPS and tries to sell the rest "Marquis". Whats left he probably doesn't care. But either way he wins...

I have no real intel but it's interesting timing and connecting of the dots.

 

[guido411]

First thing that happens is NJA gets preferential pricing on all Raytheon aircraft purchases, READ 4000.....

Dude, where have you been? It's been that way for years. If you visit RTN website there isn't even a link to Flight Options there. But it does talk about NJ buying the 4000. Santulli has been doing it for years. He signs agreements for the first however many airplanes to have exclusivity. Rarely does he take all those airplane. How many CJ3's have you seen flying around in NJ colors? None but they were supposed to get all the first serial numbers.

 

[RNObased]

I could see a possible merger with Netjets (dispose of older aircraft and keep the owners).

Not going to happen.

 

[AceCrackshot]

Considering that to torpedo FLOPS all they would have to do is go to homebasing for NJ crews. Every FLOPS SIC would run, not walk, to NJ. FLOPS couldn't absorb the ensuing training cost, let alone the fact they don't have the crews necessary to staff the operation.

FLOPS would fold in six months.