Flight Hours Per Year USAF/USN/USMC?

[Jafar]

I was wondering how total flight hours per year generally break down amongst the various services, particularly in the fighter communities. In other words, how much flying does an AF F-16 guy get in relation to a Marine Corps F/A-18 guy? (And so on and so forth...)

Thanks

 

[Toro]

Don't take anybody's answer as gospel - more than likely, the answer would change if you asked the question six months from now. For F-15Es at Lakenheath, I get about 20 hours a month. During surge months I get more, and during down periods I get less.

 

[navhnt]

Jafar,
Toro has it right... it depends. As a Navy Hornet guy, I've seen highs and lows ranging from as low as 10 hrs a month to as high as almost 70. It really dpends on a lot of factors like where you are in the training cycle and the budget. A lot of people are surprised to learn we operate on a pretty tight budget. When money is tight, one of the first things they trim is flight hours. For us Navy guys the best flying is usually on deployment.

NAVHNT

 

[Jafar]

I figured it was rather variable. I am an aviation Officer Candidate in the Marine Corps and someone told me that Air Force pilots generally saw more flight time per year than Marines. I'm not real concerned about this either way, I was just curious. I am a Marine first and foremost. If all I was interested in was flying pointy nosed jets I'd go to the Wild Blue.

As an enlisted Marine I know all about tight budgets limiting the amount of training one recieves. As an infantryman I recall times we "simulated" helo raids with a 5 ton truck. Later, as a tanker I've heard master gunners pissing and moaning about a single miss on the gunnery range because 120mm training ammunition costs about $950 a shot and we have a very finite number of rounds alloted for a given year.

But believe it or not, the Air Wing recieves the majority of the Marine Corps annual budget. I've never talked to any Marine Aviators regarding flying time versus how much the other services fly, so I'm not sure how much, if any, they notice our rather megar budget (about 5% of the total DOD budget.)

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

If you want to fly, you'll get a lot more hours, with less paperwork bullsh*t in the AF Guard/Reserve than on AD. I assume it's the same for Navy/Marine/Army.

Cliff
GRB

 

[Troll]

Just like the other guys said, it depends for USMC. During deployment workups IPs will get 45-60, midlevel guys 25-30, and RACs 15-20. Post deployment, everyone is scrounging for FCP work to break 20 hours. Annual is more what you want to look at. I normally average +/- 300.

 

[ck130]

Most CG Herc drivers get around 500 hrs a year. Just like everyone else it goes up and down a little and depends on what political winds are blowing at the time. Good Luck in OCS & flight school. When you get to Whitting, ask for VT-2, its run by Coasties, you'll luv it.

Fly Safe

ck130

 

[Jafar]

VT-2? That's the one with the crow on the patch? "Doerbirds" they're called or something? So I guess all training squadrons are designated with a VT? I have this sticker someone gave me when I was a kid from VT-23 Professionals. T-45 squadron I think. It says "We Train Hookers." I assume in todays climate their moto probably changed.

From what I understand with this new joint training syllabus its possible to end up doing primary on some Air Force base. So who knows where I'll end up. If I can get right into The Basic School after commissioning I should be going through primary (after indoc of course) in late Summer '04.

 

[Gretzky]

Concur that it depends, but here's the rough sketch...

Don't be discouraged, the Marines actually do very well, comparetively, for flight time...

general rule: anything that can stay airborne on one tank of gas for over 1+30 is going to build up flight time fast, i.e.

Heavies: (KC-10, C-5, C-141, KC-135, etc.) are a whole other ballgame. They loads, but they come in bunches (esp tanker guys...they're in high demand)

Helos: can't really speak for these guys. They live a whole other world, eating dirt with the ground pounders, but they generally get a lot of time (that doesn't count for anything except flying tourist around the Hawaiian islands).

If it has a pointy nose...
Air Force: we've got an F-15 exchange guy with us and he'll concede that, esp. now-a-days, they see 150-250 hour years. I'm rushing a viper unit now and they concur.
USMC: as a boat Hornet guy I averaged 250-300 over a 4.5 year tour in the FMF. Non-boat guys see about 200-260 per year. There was a time when harrier guys were lucky to see 100 per year, but they're back up to speed and seeing 150-200 (but I'd run as fast as you can to avoid the Scarrier, and Scarrier guys will tell you that too...if they don't, they've been smokin' good Yuma peyote)
Navy: The squids do real well when they're at sea, but as soon as they come back from cruise they suck high tit because they wind up dumping a lot of their parts off to the next squadron going out on cruise. They'll likely see 200-260 per year.

Bottom line is ask how long the different guys have taken to get to 1000 hours in type and the typical fighter guy will take 4.5-5 years in type, USMC has taken most guys 3.5-4.

Good luck and don't let anyone try to kid you...no one's first choice is helos and no one's first choice is harriers.

GRETZKY
:booty: :jammin:

 

[furloboy]

All this talk got me curious. I did twenty years in the Corps as a fighter guy (retired last year) and ended up with more than 4700 hours. That was likely fairly high for my peer group. At an average of 1.0-1.5 hours per sortie it doesn't add up quick. That included three years out of the cockpit and a couple of lean years as a staff puke (where I quickly memorized the phone numbers of all the various squadron schedulers--and which flavor of blonde they prefered). Obviously things have changed over the past couple of decades, but Marine fighter guys always seemed to rack up more flight time than their USAF counterparts.

 

[Jafar]

Gretzky-
Thanks for the input. So boat squadrons fly significantly more than no boat squadrons. So it is safe to say that "C" guys fly more than "D" guys because "D's" never go to the boat. (Although not all C's go either.) So at what point does one know which squadron they are going to? After the FRS?

And regarding Harriers. It seems to me the Corps is running out of these slowly. I mean they haven't been in production for a few years, and we crash at least a few of them a year. We already have more Hornets than Harriers, right? So out of intermediate jets, (strike syllabus) one has a higher likelyhoold of being selected for Hornets, right? Also, as E/F enters service with USN, is there a chance of them handing down some of their existing "C" Hornets to the Corps? Just a theory of mine, and I'm getting way ahead of myself obviously.

So Marine and Navy pilots generally see more hours than their Air Force counterparts, at least in similar type airframes. Obviously this is due mainly to deployment schedules. However What is the ratio of pilots to airframes in the various services? I.e., Is there more F-16 pilots in an average squadron of 12 jets than say a Marine squadron of 12 F/A-18's? Does this affect anything?

I've heard that Helo guys do fly a lot as well. But I'm not sure which communities fly more, Cobras, 53's, Phrogs, etc.

 

[navhnt]

In a Navy Hornet squadron, usual loading is 12 jets and 16 or 17 pilots. That fluctuates during the training cycle but is what we shoot for to deploy with. You might think less pilots would equal more flight time but unfortunately less pilots also means more ground jobs to go around!

You need to be a little careful when comparing ship-based flight time to shore based. While it's true the deployed guys get more funding, the sorties they fly are simply longer. An average ship sortie is 1.5 or longer, depending on how the ship is operating. Any shorter and you start jamming the ship maintenance and deck spotting cycles. A shore-based BFM hop may be as short as 45 minutes. So while the ship guys may get more flight time, squadrons nearing deployment may actually fly more sorties if they are funded correctly.

I don't think the USMC will see many Navy Hornets. We are actually transitioning mostly F-14 squadrons at the moment and JSF is right around the corner (in military aviation terms)

NAVHNT

 

[pony251]

Dude, this is my last week flying hornets in the good ole USMC. Here is what we are doing. Shore based and not in a work up, 20 hours a month avg. During work ups or at the boat35-40 hours. Usually about 200-hours a year. My last deployment during Operation Enduring freedom was an aberration. I had a 400 hour year. That is unheard of in the f-18 community, but it was great for the log book. In a squadron there is typically 18 pilots for 12 airplanes. The long term plan for the marine hornets is to keep it running until the JSF comes out. We may eventually get some of the older lot Navy C models as they replace them with the E/F. That is a long way down the road and will probably be changed 2 or 3 more times in the coming years. We will never see an E/F. If we keep crashing all of our current hornets we may have to buy some E/F models.

If you wait to the last minute to plan, your planning will only take a minute

 

[madison2]

You forgot to ask the most important question?

Does 1 hour in a pointy nose military = 1 hour in a military heavy = 1 hour in a part 121 flyer or corporate for your follow on job.

The answer is no.

Airlines count them differently and understand for the most part how much time you should have for you type of flying.

Madison 2

 

[NegBalance]

All I have to say is...Go Guard

You can keep your civilian flying job, if you have one
They get the better routes...heavies
You don't have to move after training
Tight group in the squadron
More hookups in the market than you can believe

Active Duty is a great experience but The Guard is one of the military's best kept secrets. Some may agree, some may not, and some might just be a little jealous.