Flight following and Class C/D airspace

[scubabri]

If you are getting flight following and you need to cross a class C or D airspace, can you penetrate the airspace with no word from ATC, or do you need them to acknowledge clearence into or through the airspace.

For example, flight following with Center, they hand me off to approach, I call, and the ack me and give me an alt setting and thats all.

I need to transition the airspace, but I never get and thing else from approach.

Should I ask.. or fly on?

b

 

[midlifeflyer]

My practical experience is "it depends". If you are in busy approach control airspace with a bunch of around and under Class B or D airspace, the Tower and Approach facilities =sometimes= have a letter of agreement among them, so that speaking to Approach is the equivalent of speaking to Tower. But not always. And I don't expect it at all if I'm in an outlying area. Other than that, remember that Flight Following does not involve cleranaces. You are still responsbile for all of your navigation.

If your question is about a specific area, give Approach a call on the phone. They'll be happy to let you know the local procedure.

Unless I'm flying under Class C or B airspace, I'm not sure why I'd be so close to the ground as to infringe on a Class D, but if I were, a quick call to Approach, "Approach. Cessna 1234X is planning to remain at this altitude over BigTown. Should I leave the frequency to give them a call? should resolve the issue.

 

[tarp]

For example, flight following with Center, they hand me off to approach, I call, and the ack me and give me an alt setting and thats all.

I need to transition the airspace, but I never get and (any) thing else from approach.

If "and the ack me" was supposed to say "and they acknowledge me", then the act of "acknowledgement" is permission to enter Class "C".

Remember to enter Class "C", you just have to establish two-way communication. In this case, using your call sign and giving you an altimeter setting is perfect - continue on your way.

The "killer" non-handoff with a gotcha is usually this.

You request and receive flight following from Class B approach control. Due to weather, you are flying at 2500ft agl. You come to a piece of Class D which on the sectional is embedded in the Class B or is under a shelf - regardless the Class D airspace rises higher than your altitude. Now what? The Class D is not owned by the Approach Controller - it is run by the tower controller. You have to either query the Approach controller to ask if he is keeping you through the Class D or should you change frequencies? Do NOT assume that you have permission to enter the Class D.

 

[scubabri]

So, I guess center is not responsible for the class C and so they'll generally hand you off to the Class C approach controller to transition... that makes sense... and you've then, by the regs, established communication..

I knew it was easy, I've just not done it in a while, and I couldn't remember.. :-/

 

[bigD]

Like midlifeflyer said, it really depends.. Years ago, I was flying VFR from Palm Springs to Van Nuys, and was getting flight following from Socal approach. I was coming up on the Burbank Class C, didn't hear anything from Socal about it, and basically thought about this exact question. I decided that it'd be best to query Socal, and they told me that they've already coordinated with Burbank, and that they'd handle me all the way to Van Nuys tower. It was kind of a lecture - they didn't seem at all happy about my question. But hell, I figured it was better to be safe than sorry.

As I recall, this was the only time this has happened to me - every other Approach or Center has handed me off to whomever was handling the Class C I'm passing through.

 

[Flechas]

it NEVER depends

itis very clear, as soon as the controller says your tail number you have established two way radio communication, which clears you into the airspace. what can happen is that the controller can either tell you to stay clear of the airspace or give you specific instructions or vectors in order to keep a smooth flow of traffic inside the airspace.

 

[scubabri]

Actually, to clarifiy my question, I was wondering which controllers have authority to clear into an airspace, could a tower controller in a class D, clear you into a class C or B.

b

 

[midlifeflyer]

Actually, to clarify my question, I was wondering which controllers have authority to clear into an airspace, could a tower controller in a class D, clear you into a class C or B.

Take a look at 91.129-91.131. They're worded a bit differently, but they basically contemplate the same general rule.

The basic rule is that where there is a communication requirement, communication must be established with the ATC facility that has jurisdiction over the airspace (not just any ATC facility). That's true for Classes D, C and B. Of course, in the case of Class B, we're talking clearance, not just communication.

BigD and I mentioned arrangements between control facilities in the context of speaking to approach while you barrel through Class D airspace. (I had an example of that on a night cross country with a student yesterday. We had to remain clear of a stadium TFR for the Rockies, which brought us into Jeffco (BJC) airspace. We were receiving Flight Following from Denver Approach. Although I explained to my student that the facilities were coordinated, because that's not always the case, I asked him to ask the controller if he wanted us to contact Jeffco Tower. The reply was, "No. You don't have to talk to them above 7,000'" Jeffco's Class D airspace goes up to 8000..

As for the reverse, if a Class D tower specifically issued me a Class B clearance, I'd have to assume that it was being done with coordination.

As for Class C, the rule actually contemplates it in the case of departures:

==============================
(2) Departing flight. Each person -
(i) From the primary airport or satellite airport with an operating control tower must establish and maintain two-way radio communications with the control tower, and thereafter as instructed by ATC while operating in the Class C airspace area
==============================
so, at least on departure, your communication with Class D tower meets your communication requirement.

 

[Jet_Dreamer]

here is another angle: flight following is a service from socal, center, or who ever the controlling agency is. through this service you get radar advisories. it is not a FREE ticket through the airspace system. you need to realize who you are talking to and what airspace they control. most times when i ask for advisories i include my request for a class B clearance. so at the same time the controller states 'radar contact' and cleared into the bravo. continuing the flight i cross some class C. i am already talking to that controller. use your vfr charts, they tell you A LOT of stuff. later on i get ANOTHER class bravo clearance through the LAX class B. remember they are calling traffic to you, and that is the bulk of what they (the controllers) do. hope this helps some.

 

[labbats]

If you file IFR or fly high (Class D only goes up 2500 feet AGL, and Class C up 4000 AGL) you've got no worries.