Flight engineer training

[rmanning]

I am thinking of getting my flight engineer certificate to build some hours. I realize the flight engineer is a dying breed. Any thoughts by anyone with current or recent experience.

 

[avbug]

Leaving aside the subject of building hours for the moment...what do you hope to accomplish with a flight engineer certificate? Are you hoping to "build hours" toward a career as a professional flight engineer (PFE)? Experience as a FE is not pilot experience. SIC time is, but SIC or FE time is only really of any value if it leads to employment as a PIC.

Today, few FE positions exist. Of the few that exist, almost all are filled by PFE's; these are not upgradable or upgrading positions. You start as a FE, you finish as a FE. You don't move from seat to seat. A few firms still do this, but most firms using FE's hire professional flight engineers who stay in that position.

Your mechanic certificate is a plus; it's something desirable in a PFE. However, if you're hoping to gain experience toward a pilot position, you may be barking up the wrong tree. You're far better off gaining more pilot experience, rather than trying to get your foot in the door by seeking employment as a FE.

Back to the subject of building hours, don't do that. Build experience. Building hours is wasteful. Falsify your logbook; write the time in your logbook if that's all you're after. That's all hours are worth. Instead, build experience. You can fly one hour of time, or one hour of experience, but there's no comparison between the two. I meet a lot of pilots with 15,000 hours, but much of it is nothing more than hours...not really valueable experience. Sitting and monitoring.

For you, at a time early in your career when you want to solidify and form good habits and build a base of experience upon which to grow some judgement...building hours is counter productive and wasteful. If you go rent an airplane and fly for an hour, you can spend an hour droning about, or you can concentrate on slow flight, approaches, stalls, landings, etc...you can come away with an hour of experience. The difference is entirely up to you.

Build experience, not hours.

 

[SMOE]

I was a USAF FE for 20 years on many flavors of C-130 and the NATO E-3A (B-707). Technology has replaced most of what we could do (except provide that third set of eyes on the flight deck) and the civilian (professional) FE market is much harder to crack than the pilot world. Hence, I woke up, got my tickets and like everyone else, building time hoping for a break.

Some outfits still use professional FEs usually with no chance to move up to the right seat. Evergreen is the exception. They have a formal upgrade program but based on some testimony from a couple of friends who worked there, you would probably get furloughed before you put in enough time to upgrade. ATI and Atlas also use pro FEs. Some foreign airlines use pro FEs as well. Typically, US aircarriers use a third pilot with an FE ticket as the 2nd officer.

It definitely wouldn't hurt your resume to at least have the written done. The only benefit of the FE hours is you can apply 1/3 of them towards your ATP if they were logged on 121 ops. Even then, its a restricted ATP until you reach that magic 1500 hour mark.

Hope this helps. If you want to hear more your welcome to PM me. Good Luck

 

[b757driver]

I agree with most of what SMOE says. You need to be real careful why or what you intend doing with it.

I'm originally from Europe where they have/used to have only PFEs on those aircraft that still required them. And you would ALWAYS remain an FE, no upgrade of any sort other than Chief FE! Thus, there was NO requirement for ANY pilot to have FE or FE written quals.

Here in the US, it's a bit different. In the 80/90s to get on with a major, you required @ the very least to have an FE written because the entry-level hire position was as an FE/SO. Now that very few airlines still operate thsoe 727s, L1011s, DC10s and 747 Classics, the requirement almost seems an oxymoron. Nevertheless, during the 90s I took the FE written THREE times to enhance my overall qualifications and because "in Rome, do as the Romans do". I scored high 90% and once I got a perfect score of 100%. Did it do me any good or get me results? A very big NO - it did not even get me an interview. I've now got some very pretty bits of paper to add to the library, but frankly, they were a waste of time and money (I did not know that at the time).

Your reasons for getting the full rating might be different from mine but you need to do your homework first (as you seems to be by asking here) and maybe see that it might not necessarily enhance your overall qualifications depending on what your goals are. This is a very important lesson I learnt and also applies to getting jet transport type ratings with no hard experience on type (same answer). Maybe save your money, energy and time for something that might actuall pay you dividends in the long term.

Hope this helps.

AH

 

[flybrowntails]

Building hours as a FE may not be the best for your resume. PIC or SIC will count for more, my opinion. Having a FE written is important at several airlines (as of today)

I have been a FE on the DC8 and 727 and it has been a great experience. UPS still requires the FE written.

If you have the cash sitting around on your coffee table and need to spend it-a FE ticket would be great but I feel a written would be all you would need (besides other quals).

Best of luck.

bt