Filing IFR Flight Plan in Air

[JonJohn82]

Howdy,

I have never filed an IFR flight plan in the air with ATC. If you have filed to a certain place, do a missed approach there, and want to file back, do you have to give them all of the information such as aircraft type, yadda yadda? Give me any insight you have. Thanks alot!!!!!!

Jon

 

[Ralgha]

Nope, assuming you were on a clearance to get there, they already know the details, just tell them where you want to go, the route, and how high. Often they don't even need to know the route or altitude, they'll just pick them for you.

If they don't know anything about you then they need identifier, type, altitude, route, destination.

I might be forgetting something but that's the big stuff.

Sometimes they'll tell you to radio FSS and file, then call them back.

 

[PropsForward]

Typically, if you are filed to one destination and you let the controller know that you want to shoot the approach and change the destination they will do so. I would not consider this filing an IFR FP in the air but rather a change of destination.

Now, if you are VFR and need to get an instrument clearance to continue your flight, now you're talking about filing a FP and getting the clearance. Most cases I think you will find yourself calling flight service to file then picking up the clearance from ATC.

 

[JonJohn82]

Thanks for your responses. I was talking about filing and IFR plan, opening it at my departure airport, flying it, going missed or doing a touch and go wherever, and then filing a new plan in the air to get back to my airport of departure.

Thanks!!!

 

[Immelman]

Did this with a buddy in his Mooney not long ago. We filed for on top on departure and blasted through a layer to cancel; after flying around VFR a while we filed IFR... just gave N#, aircraft type, position, destination, intentions... controller was cool with it and in 30 sec we had a clearance.

I was always under the impression before this that contollers might get PO'd -- in busy airspace that is probably the case -- but where we were he wasn't busy, and it was a non-issue.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Now, if you are VFR and need to get an instrument clearance to continue your flight, now you're talking about filing a FP and getting the clearance. Most cases I think you will find yourself calling flight service to file then picking up the clearance from ATC.

The need to call flight service as opposed to getting a "pop up" from ATC will usually be a function of where you are, who you are talking to, and how busy they are.

 

[Vector4fun]

Jon,

As the others have said, it may depend on a number of factors, and how busy the controller is.

Just understand this one concept: Pilots file flight plans, and controllers deal with clearances . When you file a flight plan, you provide a lot of information which is only germane to a search and rescue operation. (fuel on board, SOBs, est time enroute etc.) The clearances controllers deal with only have call-sign, type, equipment, TAS, route and altitude.

Ooops, gotta go, more later...

 

[Vector4fun]

Part II,

The Controller's Handbook, 7110.65 basically says we can issue an IFR clearance as soon as we have enough information to provide proper service. If you are already in my terminal airspace, and simply want an IFR clearance to descend into one of the airports in my facility's airspace, I really only need your callsign, type, and what approach you want to fly. I can then formulate a clearance and issue an IFR beacon code, (that is, a transponder code that will provide Minimum Safe Altitude Warning or MSAW), get you to the IAF, make sure you have the appropriate WX info. I can do this all without entering any info what-so-ever into the NAS. The computer entry in my ARTS would look like:
N12345
C172
^GTU
+ (for MSAW)
(enter)

No strip will be generated, I can hand write one if I care/need to. An IFR code from my facility's local code bank will display, and that's it.


If you're asking for an IFR clearance to a place NOT in my airspace, I'll probably have to enter that clearance into the NAS. The info I will need to enter is:

AC ID, Type, Equp, TAS, ETD, Alt, and route; in that order. For example, you call me north of AUS wanting to get an IFR clearance to Stinson Field, south of San Antonio, and you're in a Skyhawk, I'll get the fellow at the FDIO terminal (Flight Data position) to type:

FP N12345 C172/A 110 P1605 60 CWK..SSF (enter)

Note that there is no provision what-so-ever for Fuel, SOBs, color, alternate, etc. Controllers only deal with clearances. The NAS computer will generate a strip, assign a NAS IFR beacon code, and a Preferential routing if necessary. It will also generate a strip for SAT approach control, and allow me to make an automated handoff to SAT approach.

Generally, I can provide service for short-range IFR clearances any time I'm not down the tubes busy. It might take a few minutes, so I don't recommend departing VFR with an 800' ceiling expecting to get an IFR climb right away under any circumstances.

Now, If you, for some reason, want or need to air file a full flight plan for a 600 mile flight, I'll probably tell you to call AFSS. I'm not inclined to have you tie up my frequency for 90 seconds reading a full flight plan to me over the air when I don't have any use for half the info anyway, and I don't have any way to record the info anyway, other than on the voice tapes.

Hope that helps you understand the process and considerations. It's lots easier to get a pop-up IFR clearance from the controler if you're going to stay in his/her facility's airspace. If you want to file a full FLIGHT PLAN, call AFSS.

 

[Flylo]

Thank you sir!!

Part II,

The Controller's Handbook, 7110.65 basically says we can issue an IFR clearance as soon as we have enough information to provide proper service. <<<snip>>>
Hope that helps you understand the process and considerations. It's lots easier to get a pop-up IFR clearance from the controler if you're going to stay in his/her facility's airspace. If you want to file a full FLIGHT PLAN, call AFSS.

That's the reason I read this forum, just for insight like that (well, maybe a couple of other reasons too).

As a (hopefully) soon to be instrument rated newbie, I hate the thought of embarrasing myself by screwing up something like asking for an inflight clearance with the whole world listening and laughing their collective arses off while I get chewed out for being an ignoramus and not knowing when to call where.

You post was clear, consise and understandable. I'll bet I could've read books and watched tapes for a month and not come up with the information you just gave us.

Thank you.

 

[JonJohn82]

Wow, thanks for the responses!!!

Jon