I was wondering if a Fedex pilot could tell me what new hires can expect after training. Assuming they are trained on the 727, how long will you sit reserve, and what kind of schedules do new hires get. Also being from the midwest do many pilots commute in from Chicago or Detroit and is it possilble to eventually to fly to one of those cities once you're off reserve all the time, part of the time, or do they go senior or flown by larger aircraft. I've heard there is no pref bidding at Fedex, but there is a computer program available to accommodate such needs. Thanks for any info...
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Fedex QOL Question
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Goose17
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who knows?
Now for the longer answer:
You will be trained as a 727 s/o. After training is complete, you will only be able to hold A-reserve in Memphis (midnight to noon). Next you will be able to hold B-reserve (noon to midnight). As you work your way up the ladder, you will start holding lines, junk lines at first. If you stay in that position long enough, you get the sweet lines. HOW LONG YOU ASK? Know one knows. For some, they were on the panel 8 months or so. For others like me, it will be close to 3 years before right seat training is complete. We are hiring now and looks like we will be hiring for awhile, so I think the worst part of the slump is behind us.
As for Detroit and Chicago... mostly widebody cities. I have been to ORD in the 727, but it is mostly covered by the big boys. DTW, never flown there in the 727 and I really don't know anything about it.
As for being able to fly "there" regularly, we have guys that live all over the country that fly to and from their home town. If the 727 goes there, you can probably work your way up the list in the second officer position fairly quickly and then be able to fly to and from your desired city. If it is a wide body that serves the city in question, be prepared to wait many, many years before you can hold the line.
As for commuting, we have tons of commuters. ORD has a bunch of flights each day/night and you should be able to get on without a problem.
Our monthy bidding is done by bidpack. It is shipped to each pilot, after reviewing, you submit your preferences on the web and the computer sorts out the wishes of the seniority list and then you are awarded your monthy schedule. There are some programs available to help you sort your preferences, but we do not have "PBS" or Preferential Bidding Software". That is a hot topic here at FedEx.
Goose17
Now for the longer answer:
You will be trained as a 727 s/o. After training is complete, you will only be able to hold A-reserve in Memphis (midnight to noon). Next you will be able to hold B-reserve (noon to midnight). As you work your way up the ladder, you will start holding lines, junk lines at first. If you stay in that position long enough, you get the sweet lines. HOW LONG YOU ASK? Know one knows. For some, they were on the panel 8 months or so. For others like me, it will be close to 3 years before right seat training is complete. We are hiring now and looks like we will be hiring for awhile, so I think the worst part of the slump is behind us.
As for Detroit and Chicago... mostly widebody cities. I have been to ORD in the 727, but it is mostly covered by the big boys. DTW, never flown there in the 727 and I really don't know anything about it.
As for being able to fly "there" regularly, we have guys that live all over the country that fly to and from their home town. If the 727 goes there, you can probably work your way up the list in the second officer position fairly quickly and then be able to fly to and from your desired city. If it is a wide body that serves the city in question, be prepared to wait many, many years before you can hold the line.
As for commuting, we have tons of commuters. ORD has a bunch of flights each day/night and you should be able to get on without a problem.
Our monthy bidding is done by bidpack. It is shipped to each pilot, after reviewing, you submit your preferences on the web and the computer sorts out the wishes of the seniority list and then you are awarded your monthy schedule. There are some programs available to help you sort your preferences, but we do not have "PBS" or Preferential Bidding Software". That is a hot topic here at FedEx.
Goose17
Last edited:
donger
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What is Preferential Bidding, in general terms, and how does it differ from what is currently used at FedEx.
May seem to a stupid question, but having never been out of government flying I have no idea about any of this stuff. I will be learning all of this soon enough, but just curious now.
Donger
May seem to a stupid question, but having never been out of government flying I have no idea about any of this stuff. I will be learning all of this soon enough, but just curious now.
Donger
Falconjet
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What Goose said!
There are way too many variables to accurately predict how long you will have to plumb on the panel before you can jump to a window seat. I would guess, however, that if hired today it would be at least 3 years and possibly 5 before you would move off the panel. That could change if you are hired next month and the 150 or so vacancies in the back are filled right after you get here. That is why it is just about impossible to say how long you will have before upgrading.
I have been here almost 2 years and still can't hold a line period, let alone a "garbage line". Then again, there are guys who hang out in the back for 5-7 years by choice because they enjoy the relative seniority in that seat. There are a lot of different types of flying lines at FedEx and what is good for someone in Memphis may really bite for somebody commuting out of Allentown, PA or Spokane, WA.
As for reserve lines, there are 3 types. 'A' reserve (generally the most junior) is for mostly am flying, and you are on call from midnight to noon. 'B' reserve is mostly for pm (FedEx pm anyway) and you are on call from noon to midnight. It tends to go just slightly more senior than 'A' reserve. Both of those have 1.5 hour report times, but can be shortened to 1 hour if you are given late call parking right outside the AOC. 'RSV' reserve has a 24 hour report time and tends to go the most senior and is naturally favored by commuters, who can wait until assigned a trip to start their commute into Memphis. Once assigned a trip you are pay (with substitution) and discipline protected if you have a reserved seat on a company flight for your commute.
It should be noted that even on B reserve, all they have to do is have you report between 1:30 pm and 1:30 am, so there is still a fair amount of backside flying on B reserve. Some trips start on a Sun afternoon, fly to an outstation, layover for 24 hours and then fly am hubturns for a week before going back to the planet. And when schedules gets really devious they can expand the am flying by having you report at 1:15 am, which sure feels a lot like backside flying (because it is) but falls within the 'B' reserve report time.
All of the lines are bid upon each month based on seniority. The lines are published in the bid pack, you throw your choices in on the computer, and it spits out your award about a half hour after the bid window closes. After the awards are out, the computer starts dropping trips for people with vacation and training, creating open time for secondary lines and plain old open time. So you can bid a week on, week off line during a month in which you have vacation in order to have those vacation days knock out one of those weeks of flying, which gives you 3 weeks off in a row.
With a preferential bidding system (as I understand it) you would bid which weeks you wanted off and the computer would build you a line around your "vacation" or training and so you would still have to work 2 weeks that month around your "vacation". In other words, you would just be getting time off that you would have had anyway based on your line and not really getting any benefit of the vacation days. PBS will not fly with the crew force at FedEx in my humble opinion.
I hope that info helps. Other purple people feel free to weigh in on anything I goobered up.
FJ
There are way too many variables to accurately predict how long you will have to plumb on the panel before you can jump to a window seat. I would guess, however, that if hired today it would be at least 3 years and possibly 5 before you would move off the panel. That could change if you are hired next month and the 150 or so vacancies in the back are filled right after you get here. That is why it is just about impossible to say how long you will have before upgrading.
I have been here almost 2 years and still can't hold a line period, let alone a "garbage line". Then again, there are guys who hang out in the back for 5-7 years by choice because they enjoy the relative seniority in that seat. There are a lot of different types of flying lines at FedEx and what is good for someone in Memphis may really bite for somebody commuting out of Allentown, PA or Spokane, WA.
As for reserve lines, there are 3 types. 'A' reserve (generally the most junior) is for mostly am flying, and you are on call from midnight to noon. 'B' reserve is mostly for pm (FedEx pm anyway) and you are on call from noon to midnight. It tends to go just slightly more senior than 'A' reserve. Both of those have 1.5 hour report times, but can be shortened to 1 hour if you are given late call parking right outside the AOC. 'RSV' reserve has a 24 hour report time and tends to go the most senior and is naturally favored by commuters, who can wait until assigned a trip to start their commute into Memphis. Once assigned a trip you are pay (with substitution) and discipline protected if you have a reserved seat on a company flight for your commute.
It should be noted that even on B reserve, all they have to do is have you report between 1:30 pm and 1:30 am, so there is still a fair amount of backside flying on B reserve. Some trips start on a Sun afternoon, fly to an outstation, layover for 24 hours and then fly am hubturns for a week before going back to the planet. And when schedules gets really devious they can expand the am flying by having you report at 1:15 am, which sure feels a lot like backside flying (because it is) but falls within the 'B' reserve report time.
All of the lines are bid upon each month based on seniority. The lines are published in the bid pack, you throw your choices in on the computer, and it spits out your award about a half hour after the bid window closes. After the awards are out, the computer starts dropping trips for people with vacation and training, creating open time for secondary lines and plain old open time. So you can bid a week on, week off line during a month in which you have vacation in order to have those vacation days knock out one of those weeks of flying, which gives you 3 weeks off in a row.
With a preferential bidding system (as I understand it) you would bid which weeks you wanted off and the computer would build you a line around your "vacation" or training and so you would still have to work 2 weeks that month around your "vacation". In other words, you would just be getting time off that you would have had anyway based on your line and not really getting any benefit of the vacation days. PBS will not fly with the crew force at FedEx in my humble opinion.
I hope that info helps. Other purple people feel free to weigh in on anything I goobered up.
FJ
PastV1
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Hey Falcon,
I think you might be a little confused on the vacation and PBS thing. If we allow PBS we would probably still maintain our current vacation policy. i.e. If you have a week of vacation (7 days) then your line would be built to BLG paramenters minus the credit hours of your 7 day vacation (42 hours). So you would get about 32 credit hours assigned to your line on a 4 week month (like a vto does now). Our vacation policy is not like some where if you do not conflict you don't get any trips dropped.
Past....
I think you might be a little confused on the vacation and PBS thing. If we allow PBS we would probably still maintain our current vacation policy. i.e. If you have a week of vacation (7 days) then your line would be built to BLG paramenters minus the credit hours of your 7 day vacation (42 hours). So you would get about 32 credit hours assigned to your line on a 4 week month (like a vto does now). Our vacation policy is not like some where if you do not conflict you don't get any trips dropped.
Past....
JJet,jjet said:
I just finished training, and I was awarded a custom line for the remainder of the bid month. I was also able to bid for the next month as well. All the senior guys say I was REALLY on "autobid" b/c I was only a few names from the bottom of the bid seniority list. My custom line was a combination of "A" reserve and trips. The trips have been ok. Unfortunately, when you get a custom line, you may or may not get exposed to some trips that you will not be able to hold for many months.
Senior FedEx guys help me out; is 25 hours layover in Reno a relatively good trip? As long as I'm working, I say it is, but others may disagree.
BTW, as the 3rd-to-the-last bidder for JUL, I did not get the double-deadhead line I had requested!
Hope this helps!
Falconjet
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Reno layover
Leroy: that Reno trip with the 24 hour layover ends up in open time quite alot, not only because its hard to sleep after the am trip out there and then you swap to a day trip back I think, but some of those 24 layover trips don't pay much compared to the 2 days of work you end up doing. They actually "pay" better when you are on reserve than when you actually hold the guarantee. I think that is why some of those 24 hour layovers end up in open time so often. Again, this illustrates the point that one pilot's bad trip is another's dream trip (sometimes).
V1: Thanks for the clarification, I was only able to pass along stuff I had heard, having never been under a PBS operation. Do you agree, however, that the crew force will resist strongly the implementation of PBS? Just curious.
FJ
Leroy: that Reno trip with the 24 hour layover ends up in open time quite alot, not only because its hard to sleep after the am trip out there and then you swap to a day trip back I think, but some of those 24 layover trips don't pay much compared to the 2 days of work you end up doing. They actually "pay" better when you are on reserve than when you actually hold the guarantee. I think that is why some of those 24 hour layovers end up in open time so often. Again, this illustrates the point that one pilot's bad trip is another's dream trip (sometimes).
V1: Thanks for the clarification, I was only able to pass along stuff I had heard, having never been under a PBS operation. Do you agree, however, that the crew force will resist strongly the implementation of PBS? Just curious.
FJ
Vikingpilot
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I agree with Falconjet and Goose on everything except I have a more postive bias on hiring and movement, esp since the release of FDX financial news yesterday. Since I've been reading the earnings reports (three years now), this is the first time I've seen the CFO make such an optomistic statement regarding our future growth and earning potenial. Combine that with the start of a huge and sustained retirement cycle, I would say guys hired today and the ones who have been plumbing at the bottom for two years are in for some steady and rapid movement. Today the future looks bright, however, as everyone knows in this business the dance can end abruptly. For now anyway I'm optomistic which is unusual for me.
PastV1
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Falcon,
I do agree with you that the crewforce will resist PBS very stongly. I'm sure the company wants it. I think it is not the work rules that would be the problem with PBS but the "rule set" that builds the lines. If we (FDXALPA) controls the "rule set" on the line building it may be interesting to here what the company wants to offer to get PBS.
No way could we have it as we do now on VTO's. My first two request for trips went to junior guys for my Jul VTO... Go Figure...
Past.....
I do agree with you that the crewforce will resist PBS very stongly. I'm sure the company wants it. I think it is not the work rules that would be the problem with PBS but the "rule set" that builds the lines. If we (FDXALPA) controls the "rule set" on the line building it may be interesting to here what the company wants to offer to get PBS.
No way could we have it as we do now on VTO's. My first two request for trips went to junior guys for my Jul VTO... Go Figure...
Past.....
One of the many potential problems with PBS is how it would corrupt the vacation system. Currently, if you bid a week on, week off schedule, and have a week of vacation during one of the weeks when you would have been off anyway, you can slide or expand the vacation to conflict with your work days. Effectively creating three weeks off in this scenario, potentially more.
With the PBS system, the Company could "build" your line of flying around your week of vacation, preventing you from expanding it into larger blocks of time off, or taking more from your vacation bank to do so.
With the PBS system, the Company could "build" your line of flying around your week of vacation, preventing you from expanding it into larger blocks of time off, or taking more from your vacation bank to do so.
sandman2122
who's light?
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Vto/pbs = Bad!!
Flying with a "seasoned" captain recently and we started talking about PBS. He made a fine observation that: "If PBS is supposed to be so great, then why does it go so junior?".
I agree, if PBS is a good thing for us, why is the company asking for it and FDX ALPA rejecting it? I recently heard Dave Webb say; "We're at the end of our rope when it comes to squeezing anymore productivity out of the pilot group". [Feb. MEC meeting in Memphis].
Let's not allow this FedEx/Fred Smith/flying kill us as a result of fatigue, the money does you no good if you're out on a medical or worse...
Flying with a "seasoned" captain recently and we started talking about PBS. He made a fine observation that: "If PBS is supposed to be so great, then why does it go so junior?".
I agree, if PBS is a good thing for us, why is the company asking for it and FDX ALPA rejecting it? I recently heard Dave Webb say; "We're at the end of our rope when it comes to squeezing anymore productivity out of the pilot group". [Feb. MEC meeting in Memphis].
Let's not allow this FedEx/Fred Smith/flying kill us as a result of fatigue, the money does you no good if you're out on a medical or worse...
Spur
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Wrong. Wrong. I have heard this BS one to many times... Assuming PBS mimics the current VTO process, as V1 previously explained, if you have 7 days vacation you get 42 hours credit when they build your VTO (PBS) line. That means in a 4 week month they will typically build a line for 30 hrs (5 days) If you request min BLG maybe less. If you want 3 weeks off, you request your days off, and min BLG if you want. When I was junior, I used VTO for vacation and got exactly the weeks off I wanted, plus decent trips the days I worked... much better than if I had bid a line that I had to work with to get it to match my vacation.de Pez said:
As far as why the company wants PBS (and why they ARE NOT asking for it in the openers) it has to do more with pairing construction than pilot efficiency. As it stands now, the pairings must be built and submitted to the PSIT far in advance to allow time to build the bidpack. With PBS the pairing could be finalized closer to the beginning of the bidmonth. This would allow for fewer x pairings and trip revisions since forecast loads would be more accurate.
Sandman... the reason VTO goes junior is because you dont know what trips are gonna be in the VTO pile. I guarantee if senior dudes knew some choice trips would be in the VTO process they would bid it.
Anyway, you can't judge PBS until you see the specifics... the devil is in the details. As for me, I'm happy with the status quo... most months anyway.
JethroF15
AKA: Jake Snade
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Spur... just curious what your personal experience with PBS is. I have to admit that I don't know that much about it and have been trying to gain some insight into the process. You are the first purple guy I have heard say anything good about it. As I understand it, it works for some of the pax carriers but would be very different for the FedEx due to our flying structure.
As far as bidding VTO for your vacation month, it's the worst line you can bid if you want to maximize your time off using the least amount of vacation hours. By expanding and sliding on a regular line you can knock out almost the entire month of flying with only 7 days of vacation. If you bid VTO then you get EXACTLY the vacation hours off and no more. So in fact, they do build the rest of your months flying around the vacation hours. How do I know... learned the hard way the first 3 years I was here!
As far as bidding VTO for your vacation month, it's the worst line you can bid if you want to maximize your time off using the least amount of vacation hours. By expanding and sliding on a regular line you can knock out almost the entire month of flying with only 7 days of vacation. If you bid VTO then you get EXACTLY the vacation hours off and no more. So in fact, they do build the rest of your months flying around the vacation hours. How do I know... learned the hard way the first 3 years I was here!
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