FEDEX - How many current 727 FO and SO positions?

[DLax85]

FEDEX Pilots -

Currently, how many total 727 FO and SO positions are there?

Typically, how senior do you have to be to get off reserve as a 727 FO? ....as a 727 SO?

Typically, how senior do you have to be to hold day lines as a 727 FO? ...as a 727 SO?

Many thanks for the intel.

 

[Purpled]

Currently 405 S/O 365 F/O.

Back about a year ago, when hiring was 'normal' (pre-purple nugget program):

727 F/O:Reserve for almost a year, VTO and trash lines after that. Not sure how long until you could hold what most would consider a decent 'commutable line.' Probably about two years.

727 S/O: Reserve for 1 to 3 months, decent lines after 6-9.

Side note: I always thought the VTO lines were pretty good, and they were good about making them commutable, you just had to wait another week to get your schedule. How 'good' they are depends on manning in the seat.

Again, this timeline is based on 90% of the guys junior to you going into the backseat 727 behind you and the other 10% to the 727 F/O seat. Those poor S/Os who got hired right before the PN program are probably still standing reserve almost a year later.

Hope this helps

 

[DLax85]

Currently 405 S/O 365 F/O.

Back about a year ago, when hiring was 'normal' (pre-purple nugget program):

727 F/O:Reserve for almost a year, VTO and trash lines after that. Not sure how long until you could hold what most would consider a decent 'commutable line.' Probably about two years.

727 S/O: Reserve for 1 to 3 months, decent lines after 6-9.

Side note: I always thought the VTO lines were pretty good, and they were good about making them commutable, you just had to wait another week to get your schedule. How 'good' they are depends on manning in the seat.

Again, this timeline is based on 90% of the guys junior to you going into the backseat 727 behind you and the other 10% to the 727 F/O seat. Those poor S/Os who got hired right before the PN program are probably still standing reserve almost a year later.

Hope this helps

Purple -

Thanks for the quick/detailed response...it's very helpful.

Couple of follow on questions:

Understand you need to wait an "extra week" for a VTO schedule---how far in advance do you know your schedule if you are holding a normal line?

It looks like about 65-70 guys were direct hired to MD-11 FO slots to ANC this summer and the upcoming wave of 727 training this fall/winter will be an overall 20% FO - 80% SO split...would you call this getting "back to normal" on the 727 side of the house?

Any idea what the long term plans are for hiring & training newbies?---i.e. will they continue to hire straight into the MD-11 FO slots at ANC or was that "atypical" because of the current planned expansion in ANC and those slots went vacant on the last bid?

Thanks again.

As always, all others please feel free to chime in with your perspectives.

 

[Purpled]

In a 4-week bid month, the bid closes on the 3rd Tuesday. If you are awarded a VTO, you get that on the 4th Wednesday. The new bidmonth starts on what would be the 5th Monday(all months start on monday).

For example. August bidmonth started on Jul31, bid closed on Aug15th, VTOs finished on the 23rd, Sept bidmonth starts on Aug28.

In a 5 week bid-month, delay everything by 1 week.

I think we'll be back to 'normal' now that the MD-11 folks are in the house, I don't think you'll see too many more going to the WB as newhires.

Once they drain the pool I would expect 30 a month indefinitely for two years or so...as long as something disasterous doesn't happen. After that? Take a guess.

 

[Skaff]

From an ignorant bystandard...whats the purple nugget program.

 

[Huck]

New hires drect to the right seat of the MD11.

 

[Falconjet]

Holding a line simply depends on the number of folks behind you. Here are some numbers from the Sep bid results:

727 S/Os
Junior secondary line holder had 7 below him/her
Junior B reserve line holder had 30 below him/her
Junior "trash" line holder had 50 below him/her
Junior regular line holder had 77 below him/her

727 FOs
junior secondary line holder had 25 below him/her
junior B reserve line holder had 27 below him/her
junior "trash" line holder had 40 below him/her
junior regular line holder had 100 below him/her

So how long will it take to get that many folks behind you? Keep in mind that this is just a snapshot of one month, and certainly changes month to month. If they are hiring 24 a month and most of those are going to the back seat, you can figure a couple of months to B reserve or secondary line maybe and a couple more for a trash line. That is as long as hiring continues.

The times will be slightly longer if you get a right seat because there won't be as many coming in behind you per month. In fact, if you go to the right seat you will likely lose seat seniority every month as the folks who are already on the training letter start to upgrade. Something to keep in mind when you decide (if you get the chance) to take the right seat instead of the back seat when your new hire class bids.

If you are on the bottom of a list it might as well be a flying seat, and the FO job is a lot easier, so I would certainly take it, but you will not get as good a line as quickly if you take the right seat.

FJ

 

[Gummo]

New hires drect to the right seat of the MD11.

Actually, to quote from the CP's memo:

"First, Purple Nuggets. Any new hire at FedEx will heretofore be known as a Purple Nugget."

His Navy side was showing when he came up with that one. I think some folks started calling the direct hires to the WB FO seat Golden Nuggets.

Gummo - Poolie/would be Purple Nugget

 

[DLax85]

Holding a line simply depends on the number of folks behind you. Here are some numbers from the Sep bid results:

727 S/Os
Junior secondary line holder had 7 below him/her
Junior B reserve line holder had 30 below him/her
Junior "trash" line holder had 50 below him/her
Junior regular line holder had 77 below him/her

727 FOs
junior secondary line holder had 25 below him/her
junior B reserve line holder had 27 below him/her
junior "trash" line holder had 40 below him/her
junior regular line holder had 100 below him/her

So how long will it take to get that many folks behind you? Keep in mind that this is just a snapshot of one month, and certainly changes month to month. If they are hiring 24 a month and most of those are going to the back seat, you can figure a couple of months to B reserve or secondary line maybe and a couple more for a trash line. That is as long as hiring continues.

The times will be slightly longer if you get a right seat because there won't be as many coming in behind you per month. In fact, if you go to the right seat you will likely lose seat seniority every month as the folks who are already on the training letter start to upgrade. Something to keep in mind when you decide (if you get the chance) to take the right seat instead of the back seat when your new hire class bids.

If you are on the bottom of a list it might as well be a flying seat, and the FO job is a lot easier, so I would certainly take it, but you will not get as good a line as quickly if you take the right seat.

FJ

FJ / Purple -

Thanks again for all the indoc training...I've been a pure military pilot for the past 21 yrs, so it's all new to me.

Could you briefly elaborate on the difference between --- Reg Line vs Trash Line vs B Reserve vs Jr Sec Line vs Others below them all.

From your post I am assuming the hiearchy is Reg, then Trash, then B Reserve, then Jr Sec....???...correct. The names are not intuitive to me.

Also, if I combine the data in this thread and assume 365 FOs and 405 SOs, would I be correct in approximating the #s in Sept played out as follows:

365 FOs total
Seniority #s 1 thru 265 - Reg Line
266-325 - Trash Line
326-338 - B Reserve
339-340 - Jr Sec Line
341-365 - ???

405 SOs total
Seniority #s 1 thru 328 - Reg line
329-355 - Trash Line
356-475 - B Reserve
476-498 - Jr Sec Line
499-405 - ???

Thanks again for helping train a FNG.

 

[fartknocker]

Could you briefly elaborate on the difference between --- Reg Line vs Trash Line vs B Reserve vs Jr Sec Line vs Others below them all.

Thanks again for helping train a FNG.

I'll add what I know.

A regular line is one where you know exactly what trips you are flying and what days on /off you have. These are posted in the bid packets. We won't be holding one for a while. They tend to go more senior, as people like to know what they are doing ahead of time.

I'm not sure on the nomenclature, but the Trash and Secondary lines may be the ones where you don't have a clue what days you will be working/off, but after you are awarded this type of line, scheduling will build you a line out of open time. I think this is how they do it. Someone please correct this if I am way off. :erm:

A Reserve is from 0000 LCL - 1200 LCL. (That's midnight to 12 noon). B Reserve is from 1200 LCL - 0000 LCL.

My guess is we'll be seeing A reserve for a few months in either seat.

See you in MEM on the 28th!! :beer:

Feel free to PM me with an email if you need anything else.

 

[Falconjet]

Sort of. A regular line is one that has city and duty time continuity. PM or AM out and backs, hub turn, west coast day trips, IND hub turns, day turns, but mostly consistent through the month.

Trash lines are at the bottom of the bidpack and are made up of leftover stuff that didn't fit into the regular lines. It might swap day and night flying every other week or every couple of days. Different cities each trip and some commutable and some not. A real line, just a hodgepodge of stuff, some good and some not so good usually.

A secondary line is built after the bid closes and is made up of stuff that is dropped from vacation, training and other conflicts. Sometimes a senior secondary line can be better than some of the normal regular lines. They don't come out until the Wed/Thu before the month starts on Mon.

B reserve means your notification window is from noon to midnight, and A reserve is from midnight to noon. Doesn't mean all your flying will be in that time frame, that is just the time you must answer the phone. There is also a 24 hour notice reserve that some commuters prefer.

DLax85: The bids don't go so simply. There are senior guys who live in Mem that bid B reserve. Some prefer AM out and backs. Those numbers are just the junior guy that was able to hold the last of each of those types of lines. Your mileage will vary and you will pretty quickly be able to figure out what your seniority will hold each month.

Figure several months on reserve and maybe a secondary line in 2 or 3. If you are going to commute a secondary line might be preferable because then you can drop/trade trips with open time (if there is any) and manning is sufficient. R days tend to be harder to drop/move.

Don't worry too much about it because it won't make too much sense until you try it out once or twice, no matter how we try to explain it! Everybody has their own preference, but regular lines, (senior) secondary, trash, junior secondary, then reserve seems to be the general order of preference.

I'll keep trying though if anybody has questions.

FJ

 

[P3tarbaby]

Regular lines are lines that usually consist of the same pairings all month. So, for example, if it is a commuter line, it may have deadhead followed by a week of hub turns followed by a deadhead, then a week off, then the same thing the following week. Or it may consist of three or four days of out-and-backs per week for three weeks - local guys tend to prefer these.

Trash lines are lines that are made up of left over trips so you may go all over the place, you may have week on-week off, but in most cases the trips are spread all over the month. There are usually some good trips but if you get one that is 3 on, 3 off and you are a commuter, it can be tough.

VTOs or secondary lines are built after the regular bid closes and are lines constructed from trips that are dropped due to vacation, training or other circumstances. They can be good or bad and sometimes it is a real crap shoot. (I personally like them and have had good luck with them). When the bid closes, you'll get a chance to look at some of the trips in open time and submit a preference sheet for your secondary line (ie, commuter line, trip/date, days off, desire XXX city layovers, etc). The schedulers supposedly use this to build your line. Again, it can be a crapshoot depending you your seniority and who else has vto's. You get your final schedule the Wednesday before the bid month starts.

Reserve - already covered. A = 0130-1330, B = 1330-0130. B tends to go more senior because it is typically day flying. This is where you will start but you won't stay long, maybe 3-4 months or less at the current hiring tempo. In fact, the good 72 FO reserve lines go pretty senior because we are over manned and the FO's aren't getting called much.

I've been here just over 2 years, spent the first year as an SO and the second year as an FO. Never spent more than 3 months on reserve, then able to hold VTO. Now bidding low 60s percentile and can hold decent lines in the right seat of the 72. Keep in mind, I was hired after they stopped hiring for 18 months ( I was in the pool for 22 months) and they are hiring more/ bigger classes now than then.

Hope this helps.

 

[DLax85]

Thanks for all the responses/inputs

All -

Thanks for all the responses/inputs....plenty to learn/digest...I'm looking forward to starting class in Memphis on Monday regardless of what seat it's in!

Aloha

 

[AlbieF15]

Trash lines are also a great way to learn the system...get out and about the country (sometimes called "tour America" lines) and find out what kind of trips you DO like. I've made a career out of the things...

 

[johnsonrod]

All -

Thanks for all the responses/inputs....plenty to learn/digest...I'm looking forward to starting class in Memphis on Monday regardless of what seat it's in!

Aloha

Let us know what type you get. I always thought starting out as a 727 FO would be ideal - avoid the plummer job and enjoy the ride...

 

[psysicx]

How senior is 24hr notice?

 

[DLax85]

Let us know what type you get. I always thought starting out as a 727 FO would be ideal - avoid the plummer job and enjoy the ride...

I ended up with the SO position.

There were 9 FO slots in our class....2 of the top 9 passed on their FO slots, and they were picked up by #10 and #11....I was/am #12.

 

[Purpled]

Don't be too upset about missing by one slot, you'll get better seniority and get paid the same for the first year...and no landings on probation.

If you're a commuter, this will work out much better for you. If you live in memphis, life is so easy that it doesn't really matter. The only drawback is if you're set on being a 727FO for a long time then you will have one more training cycle to get there.

Either way, congrats and welcome...finally!

 

[Frac Daddy]

I ended up with the SO position.

There were 9 FO slots in our class....2 of the top 9 passed on their FO slots, and they were picked up by #10 and #11....I was/am #12.

2 dudes actually PICKED the back seat?! Wow.

DLax85,

Do you plan on living in Memphis? If so, B reserve is, in my opinion, the best thing going for the locals. They don't seem to work very much and it is mostly day flying. Also, it doesn't seem to take a whole lot of seniority to hold those lines in the 727.

 

[DLax85]

Yep, I'll be a commuter...SO position will be great....the big wave of SOs in next few months will mean seniority very quickly...plus, FOs in the next class mean all the SOs in our class will be elgible for passover pay next year, if for some reason there's not another bid between now and Aug 2007...would be sweet to get 2nd yr FO pay as a senior 2nd yr SO!

 

[Purpled]

Not to be a killjoy, but you will certainly have the opportunity to bid FO within the next year, which will make you not get the passover unless you bid it.

Don't worry, that will not even phase you when you realize how good this gig is...except the backseat stuff. haha

 

[donger]

Sitting reserve as a first officer in the 727 is like getting paid for not working. The guys I know have to pick trips up just to make minimums. One guy flies three or four days a month. Not bad.