Fed Ex Caravans

[CougarAviator]

Where does Fed Ex use the Caravans, and how much time do you need to get on with them, to fly the Caravans?

Thanks!!

 

[falcon20driver]

They're used to fly freight from the hubs to the smaller cities everywhere, and most FedEx feeder operators have a 2000 hour requirement to fly the Van.

More info here http://www.caravanpilots.com/operators.htm

 

[88_MALIBU]

Why do they require 2000 hours? You can get into a Cessna 421 and fly cancelled checks with less time. I remembered when I lived in ND they had a bunch of those running around, and all the pilots were older because they were flying 135 and most were retired ALP. That frustrated me! Let me have a chance!

 

[mattpilot]

because a caravan has a turbine and an inexperienced pilot can easily 'cook' one

 

[88_MALIBU]

Yea and geared engines are so bulletproof!!

 

[kg4mvp]

It's not that you can "cook" one. These guys fly in all types of scenario's. I've seen some vans land with ice coating everthing which the boots couldnt get rid of.

because a caravan has a turbine and an inexperienced pilot can easily 'cook' one

 

[DC8 Flyer]

because a caravan has a turbine and an inexperienced pilot can easily 'cook' one

Dont kid yourself, turbine is as easy if not easier to fly then piston. No shock cooling, manifold, rpm ratio to worry about, just good old temp and torque.

 

[mattpilot]

sorry for the misunderstanding


Its just that over on pprune.org i read a few times how junior pilots 'cooked' the engines and that the company for each respective case then later raised the minimums.

Thats just my understanding... but then, i don't have any personal experience.


kg4mvp's explanation sounds good too

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Dont kid yourself, turbine is as easy if not easier to fly then piston. No shock cooling, manifold, rpm ratio to worry about, just good old temp and torque.

I guess he was referring to not being able to firewall a turbine engine. You can't really hurt a piston engine by going to the stops with the throttles. On the other hand do the same with a turbine or jet and you just cost the company an engine tear down for inspection at least.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

sorry for the misunderstanding


Its just that over on pprune.org i read a few times how junior pilots 'cooked' the engines and that the company for each respective case then later raised the minimums.

Thats just my understanding... but then, i don't have any personal experience.


kg4mvp's explanation sounds good too

Turbines are easy once you get the basics. Much less to worry about than piston as far a flying it. As the other poster said, Temperature, and in the case of turboprop, torque.

The big difference is that full power on a turbine is not to the stops, full power is limited by temperature and torque. The engine will give you far far more power than it is rated for if you hit the stops on it. Just no guarantees that it will hold together for more than a few minutes, or seconds if you do.

Pratt and Whitney claimed that the JT8D engine(DC-9, 737-200, 727 etc.) would run for five minutes at firewall power, past that they gave no guarantee. Enough overboost to save your bacon if you needed it, but you had to tear the engine down and inspect it after such an event.

We had a newhire at my old regional over torque the engines to 145% one day, the Capt. pulled them back before damage occured, but it was costly to the company in down time and the inspections. So that is probably what your friends are referring to when they say "cook"

The other cooking may refer to a hot start that is not caught by the pilot in time to prevent damage.

 

[DC8 Flyer]

I guess he was referring to not being able to firewall a turbine engine. You can't really hurt a piston engine by going to the stops with the throttles. On the other hand do the same with a turbine or jet and you just cost the company an engine tear down for inspection at least.

You bring up an awesome point! Been flying these for so long I forgot about being able to firewall and forget

Reminds of a Capt I flew with. The weather was crap all over and this guy had a real big case of the getinnomatterwhats! Well on the second missed while Im busy bringing the flaps and gear up, I notice/hear the airplane humming a little different, I look down to 115% TQ and 790 deg on the ITT and the Capt is doing his best to hand fly this miss.

That took some convincing but I got him to fess up and write up the airplane, mx found nothing wrong but, it is real easy to over temp and torque especially when all you wanna do is make that little VSI needle keep moving to the right!

 

[PolarTwins55]

Mountain Air Cargo flys them for FedEx over here on the east coast.

 

[LearLove]

Where does Fed Ex use the Caravans, and how much time do you need to get on with them, to fly the Caravans?

Thanks!!

To answer your question there are 3 main FDX feeder companies. Mountain Air (and MA's other company in MI) in NC, Wiggins in NH and Empire in ID. There may be several others but the bulk of the FDX feeder routes are flown by these 3 companies. FDX owns most of (if not all) the airplanes (Vans,Fokkers,ATR) and I guess leases them to the feeder company. Each company has a website with applications and mins listed. Just do a yahoo or google search on them and you will get all you need.

 

[FN FAL]

Why do they require 2000 hours? You can get into a Cessna 421 and fly cancelled checks with less time. I remembered when I lived in ND they had a bunch of those running around, and all the pilots were older because they were flying 135 and most were retired ALP. That frustrated me! Let me have a chance!

Hahahahaha...I asked the same question back when I was low time young blood...and they never even wasted the time giving me an answer.

Go put your resume in at freight runners, they'll 206 your sexy ass up and before you know it, you'll be logging twin turbine time in the 99.

We just had a 2,000 hour CFI washout in IOE. He flew fine, but thinking on the fly was not yet a foundation. Last I heard a regional interviewed him right after he left here and he was on his way. Go figure...I had to wash out at regional to get in here.

It's a safe job, but they are looking to hire captains who can make things happen and do it safely. Doesn't matter if it's a single caravan...it's the flying.

 

[CougarAviator]

Thanks for the info, guys!!!!

 

[PolarTwins55]

http://www.airt.net/mac.html

Mountain air flys Shorts 330, C208, F-27s and ATR-42s. The also do some flying in the caribean. If you look around there's 2 routes maps on the site.

 

[wingnutt]

if 2,000 hours is too rich for your logbook, try martinaire (www.martinaire.com) for a few hundred (they hire at 1200) and then jump over. more than one has done it

 

[Goods2000]

Cougar

Fedex does not fly any Caravans they are all flown by DBA's

Empire airlines, and I am drawing a blank on the others

their time requirements are not much higher than the PIC 135 requirements, a good starting job after instrution

 

[shorty]

FedEx owns all their Caravans. They pay other companies to operate, maintain & fly them. These companies are not DBA's. Mins to get started on a FedEx Caravan include 2000tt & some solid IFR time. However there are other Caravan operators whose requirements are the PIC 135 requirements. As someone already mentioned www.caravanpilots.com lists all the operators.

 

[urflyingme?!]

FAL,
Hey what is Freight runner's? Couldn't find it on the almighty google! Tanks
PS All the fedex guys I see in Southern CO, and NM are Empire...

 

[Goods2000]

FedEx owns all their Caravans. They pay other companies to operate, maintain & fly them. These companies are not DBA's. Mins to get started on a FedEx Caravan include 2000tt & some solid IFR time. However there are other Caravan operators whose requirements are the PIC 135 requirements. As someone already mentioned www.caravanpilots.com lists all the operators.

what is a DBA ? If you work for one of these other companies do you have a fedex senority number?..... No. will you eventually upgrade to the fedex fleet? .. Nope.

They paint their caravans Fedex colors because they are on exclusive contracts to Fedex. But they infact are not employees of fedex. They infact are Fedex DBA Empire airlines, ect.

 

[MarineGrunt]

FAL,
Hey what is Freight runner's? Couldn't find it on the almighty google! Tanks
PS All the fedex guys I see in Southern CO, and NM are Empire...

http://www.freightrunners.com/

Based out of MKE. Everyone seems pretty happy there.

 

[falcon20driver]

They paint their caravans Fedex colors because they are on exclusive contracts to Fedex. But they infact are not employees of fedex. They infact are Fedex DBA Empire airlines, ect.

You're not correct, the vans are owned by FedEx.

 

[Goods2000]

Why would fedex pay another company to operate, fly and maintain their own aircraft?


what you are saying is that fedex bought all of the F27's and Caravans and gave them to empire to have and operate and pays them as well?

 

[falcon20driver]

Why would fedex pay another company to operate, fly and maintain their own aircraft?


what you are saying is that fedex bought all of the F27's and Caravans and gave them to empire to have and operate and pays them as well?

FedEx didn't give them to anyone, FedEx owns the aircraft and pays

http://www.baron-aviation.com/
http://www.csaair.com/
http://www.corporateair.net/
http://www.empireair.com/
http://www.mtaircargo.com/
http://www.maei.ca/siteindex.php?page=history
http://www.westair.net/
http://www.wiggins-air.com/intro.html


to fly the routes and maintain the aircraft.

 

[urflyingme?!]

THX grunt,
Semper Fi(did i spell that wrong?)

 

[shorty]

Yeah .....what falcon20driver said! Maybe he explained it better than I did!

 

[RockyMnt1]

"Why would fedex pay another company to operate, fly and maintain their own aircraft?"

Several reasons:
1) FedEx gets to utilize the depreciate/tax benfits of the assets since they own the asset
2) Leasing the aircraft maintenance, operation, crew etc. to outside firms limits FedEx liability exposure
3) No issues relating to the merger of pilot lists as was the case with Flying Tigers
4) Easier to drive the cost of shipping packages down with competion among the outside companies

 

[Headwind]

On cooking the engine, it could be a hot start. An improper engine start on a PT-6 could be more expensive than buying a nice C-421. I don't think 2,000 hours is asking a lot to fly a million dollar turbine aircraft single pilot in all kinds of weather.
Also the type of flying you did to get to 2,000 hours is more important than the fact that you have 2,000 hours.
Just my thoughts.

HEADWIND

 

[f28pilot]

FedEx owns all their Caravans. They pay other companies to operate, maintain & fly them. These companies are not DBA's. Mins to get started on a FedEx Caravan include 2000tt & some solid IFR time. However there are other Caravan operators whose requirements are the PIC 135 requirements. As someone already mentioned www.caravanpilots.com lists all the operators.

Shorty has it correct. As for why the high mins, flying a Caravan in the dark all winter in the ice and all summer around thunderstorms can be pretty taxing all by yourself. I got into the Caravan the wrong way (downgraded from A320) and when things get bad you really miss the extra pilot and extra thrust.

The job does have its' upside though. Starting pay is in the $32k ballpark, paid medical for the pilot, home every night, about 5 hours of "work" per day (although it is occasionaly stretched over 14 hours away from base - hotel room provided at the outstation), Monday through Friday or Tuesday through Saturday schedule, and at my operator we get 4 days off every sixth week (with a single day trade that turns into a full week) plus the normal 2 weeks vacation.

Interested in a job in GFK? (our motto: the cold isn't _that_ bad, the mosquitoes SUCK!) Check out www.corporateair.net, we're short two guys and when we get fully staffed we start getting standby days that we don't even have to show up at the airport. We're salaried so the pay is the same - have to love that!

Cheers,
Steve