FAR 91/121/135 TO/Landing mins

[1013dot25hPa]

I am currently at an apt. where the vis. & ceiling is 1/4SM FG VV001

My OPSPEC allow lower then standard takeoff mins, 1800RVR.

Standard Takeoff mins. are 5000RVR or 1 mile for a 2 engined powered ac.

Published takeoff mins. for this apt. are 300-1 for 1 runway and 700-2 for the other runway with a min. climb gradient of 300'/NM.

I made the No-GO decission because according to my interpretation of the rules, I can not legally go under 135/121.

However, I have seen a few people land and takeoff. Are these Pt. 91 flights? I understand they can takeoff with 0/0. But what about the published takeoff mins.? And what about the ILS approach that requires 200 and 1/2???

Thanks!

 

[atldc9]

It could be a few things that allow people to leave under your scenario.

The first that comes to mind, is under 121, Op's specs allow for departure down to as low as 600 RVR under certain conditions.

Also, they could be pt 91.

Most likely, they were feight dogs wanting to go home. Just kidding.

FWIW

 

[pilotyip]

300 and 1 is not a standard takeoff minimums, therefore you can not apply lower than standard minumums to that runway. Althought the one mile may be standard the 300 celing is not standard.

 

[atldc9]

300 and 1 is not a standard takeoff minimums, therefore you can not apply lower than standard minumums to that runway. Althought the one mile may be standard the 300 celing is not standard.

It depends on if there is an alternate procedure, ie a min climb gradient. If there was an alternate procedure and it could be met, you could then use the lower then standard T/O mins.

 

[1013dot25hPa]

I understand how it works. And know that I can not apply my lower then standard TO minmiums when there is a published 300 - 1.

My question is, why are some people able to take off when conditions aren't even close to 300 - 1. And why are some people able to land when the conditions are 100 - 1/4? That's my question.

 

[paulsalem]

And why are some people able to land when the conditions are 100 - 1/4? That's my question.

If you are part 91, and you break out on the approach and determine that you have the FLIGHT VIS of 1/2sm than you are legal to land. The ATIS doesn't mean anything.

 

[1013dot25hPa]

Ah, that's what I was looking for. But that's only for Pt. 91 guy's right?

121 & 135 guy's can't start the approach in the case as described above. The only time we go by inflight vis is when we have begun the final approach segment and then receive a wx report indicating wx below mins. When we elect to continue the approach and reach MDA or DA, we can then go missed or continue the approach if we have a visual reference and inflight visibility equal to or above what required for the approach.

 

[paulsalem]

Ah, that's what I was looking for. But that's only for Pt. 91 guy's right?

121 & 135 guy's can't start the approach in the case as described above. The only time we go by inflight vis is when we have begun the final approach segment and then receive a wx report indicating wx below mins. When we elect to continue the approach and reach MDA or DA, we can then go missed or continue the approach if we have a visual reference and inflight visibility equal to or above what required for the approach.

I've never flown part 135, but for 91 and 121 you are correct.

 

[Singlecoil]

I am currently at an apt. where the vis. & ceiling is 1/4SM FG VV001

My OPSPEC allow lower then standard takeoff mins, 1800RVR.

Standard Takeoff mins. are 5000RVR or 1 mile for a 2 engined powered ac.

Published takeoff mins. for this apt. are 300-1 for 1 runway and 700-2 for the other runway with a min. climb gradient of 300'/NM.

I made the No-GO decission because according to my interpretation of the rules, I can not legally go under 135/121.

However, I have seen a few people land and takeoff. Are these Pt. 91 flights? I understand they can takeoff with 0/0. But what about the published takeoff mins.? And what about the ILS approach that requires 200 and 1/2???

Thanks!

If this airport doesn't have RVR, then your 1800RVR doesn't apply. Most likely it falls under the "adequate visual reference" portion of your TO Ops Specs. In that case it is usually 1/4 mile or 1600 RVR. If you have that, you don't need centerline lights, TDZ lights, any lights for that matter during the day. 1600 or 1/4 and you can see well enough to take off and you can blast off.

 

[Flysher]

MKE was 1/4 and VV100 on monday night. The only reason we were all getting in was because the tower was giving out RVR for the landing runway above the minimums. ( which if any of you were in there Im sure you also had serious doubts that 1L was better than 6000 RVR)

As far as the takeoff mins, if it states that you need a definite ceiling and vis and does NOT give you an alternative such as "or standard with a minimum climb gradient.." then you have to have the ceiling and vis. Otherwise if your plane can maintain 300 ft per NM or whatever the gradient says, then you can apply the lower than standard TO mins and go.

Some times you can use little tricks too like getting ATC to turn up the lights a bit( if there not already) and possibly raising the RVR enough so that you can leave or get in.