Falcon drivers attn. need help on gear system

[hellas]

guys and gals, the red button above the gear handle on the fa-20 is only to be used in "a greater emergency" and not a casual basis just to release the pin to put the gear up. What is involved with that pin and button that it is not to be used as "normal operation" . My flight dept. including the MX has seen the use of this button as no big deal and normal. But, FSI and very seasoned falcon drivers have told me to NEVER use this button and can cause a gear up landing on one or more trucks. I have been insistant on clarification but to no avail.

 

[pilotyip]

Electrical bypasses

It bypasses the safety switches in the nose gear (12G) and main mount squat switch (17G1). Those switches prevent the gear from being raised on the ground. It also ensures the nosewheel is centered before retraction to prevent jamming in the nose well. You could see bypassing the 12G switch could cause problem latter when you try to lower the gear.

 

[falcondriver]

There had to be a reason why the gear handle didn't come up. Could be simple, could be complicated. You can leave the gear down and return to the airport and find out what the problem is or use the red button and see what new problems you have to deal with. I've flown a bunch of old cargo Falcon's and was never pissed off when the gear was stuck down but the gear being stuck up always pissed me off. Listen to the old guys that are saying don't use that button unless you are in deep Sh$t.
FD

 

[hellas]

Guys thanks for the info so far, but as I approached your reasoning with other pilots they have said that you can know if it is the 12 squat switch by testing the stall audio button or the anti-skid test and if they both react as if they are still on the ground then it must be the squat switch only and it thinks it is still on the ground and you can tell if the nose wheel is centered by looking at the tiller and see if the painted verticle line on the tiller is normal(verticle) as well as there is plenty of clereance inside the nose wheel well for a skewed nose wheel. The main reasoning for a non sense of urgency is that the abnormal checkist states" do not use the override unless a greated emergency exist" but this new statement is not qualified in the AFM or new FSI books.Any more input would be great. thanks

 

[FR8dognit]

I think the "greater emergency" they are speaking of would be, for example: If you took off and the pin prevented retraction and you also lost an engine, you would still be able to retract the gear to reduce the drag in a tough spot like that. Under any circumstances that an immediate action was not required, I would advise leaving it alone.



PS...whats up FD?

 

[ultrarunner]

Guys thanks for the info so far, but as I approached your reasoning with other pilots they have said that you can know if it is the 12 squat switch by testing the stall audio button or the anti-skid test and if they both react as if they are still on the ground then it must be the squat switch only and it thinks it is still on the ground and you can tell if the nose wheel is centered by looking at the tiller and see if the painted verticle line on the tiller is normal(verticle) as well as there is plenty of clereance inside the nose wheel well for a skewed nose wheel. The main reasoning for a non sense of urgency is that the abnormal checkist states" do not use the override unless a greated emergency exist" but this new statement is not qualified in the AFM or new FSI books.Any more input would be great. thanks

WAY, WAY TOO much thinking going on here, when all you're going to do is turn around and land anyway. Run the check, do what it says, and land. Besides, you're prly not even pressurizing anyway with the 17G1 in ground mode.

One more thing...read the NTSB report on the Alaskan Mad-Dog. It's a great example of what trouble shooting above the checklist gets you.

 

[TransMach]

DA20 Landing Gear Retract - Over-ride Button

Guys,

It's been years and I do recall 12G, nose gear centering, etc ... but isn't it a bad idea to get into the habit of pushing the override to get the gear to come up? In more than 2,500 hours in type, I don't ever recall having to do it to get the gear up, and seem to recall FSI training "only to retract following engine failure on take-off" ...


TransMach

PS ... anyone looking for a Learjet, DA-20, DA-50, G1159, GIV capt, let me know.

 

[Loco Gringo]

If there is a problem raising the gear try rocking the tiller to assist the centering cam, had this problem once and it worked. However, I am with pilotyip all the way on this one and would not push the gear override button unless my life depended on it.