Faip?

[luck4unme]

Hypothetically............ of course..............if a stud is about 1/3 of the way through T 38's and absolutley loves the jet, wants to get hours and loves to fly .........and instructing is appealing, what are the "downsides" of FAIP?

Just hypothetically of course.

 

[Extender]

Being a Tweet FAIP was pretty cool for me. The only drawbacks I can think of would be being at Laughlin (thank goodness I wasn't) and the fact studs are always trying to kill you. But overall it was very satisfying and made me a good stick and rudder pilot.

The hours are long, but you're not deploying... I'd recommend it if you can do it.

 

[Toro]

I really don't think there are any disadvantages to being a FAIP, though you are delaying your operational and tactical knowledge. When I finally got to my Ops unit after three years as a FAIP, there were four ship flight lead instructors who had graduated pilot training after me and guys who I gave checkrides to that were now my flight lead. It's not a huge deal though, you'll get there eventually.

On the other hand, there are plenty of advantages. You'll get a $hitload of hours (I got over 1000 in the T-38) and airmanship, you can go cross country all the time, but that's the extent of your TDYs (ie no deployments), you get your AETC tour done and out of the way, and - in my case and others I've seen - the jet I wanted wasn't available in UPT, but I got in the FAIP drop.

 

[AlbieF15]

While there are some exceptions to this, the guys who go to Fighter Weapons School in the AF are largely guys who went to their operation fighter as a Lt.

I have worked for a superior Wpns Officer who was a former OV-10 FAC, and I know of a couple that were FAIPs, but the vast majority were first assignment guys who then went ops to ops or ops to FTU.

You run the risk of never becoming a "patch wearer" if you stay in AETC for your first tour--not a given but the odds say its a tougher road. Other than wanting to be the absolute best fighter pilot you can be, what are the downsides of not going to FWIC? Historically in the F15 community, squadron commanders are either A) Patch wearers or B) below the zone to Maj/Lt Col or C) both! Again...there are some darn fine officers out there who have been great squadron commanders without doing any of that, but I think most would agree they are the exception and not the rule. Certainly, they had to work very hard to rise above the competition to be competitive...and the patch does seem to make a huge difference.

Now...does it seem fair that a decision made at the Lt. point in a career can have such long lasting ramifications? Probably not, but you need to know the rules going in. If you take an AETC assignment, you will find upgrading to IP once you get to the fighter squadron and are a mid-level captain may be easier for you than that brand new captain with 600 fighter hours. However, when the decision is made between you and him (or her....now in 2002) to decide who goes to weapons school next, don't be surprised if the other candidate gets the nod. (The same can be often be the case with the "who next into the upgrade" decision). This is because FWIC is a very expensive program in training costs and man hours, and the AF wants its investment paid pack as long as possible. If your career is typical, you'll have 1 operational tour after FWIC before you need to go to a staff/school tour. On the other hand, that bright, shiny 3-4 year guy (with your FAIP tour you've been in about 6-7) has a full tour extra to give back to the squadrons the training he has gotten. Just so you know--this isn't pure discimination against FAIPs. There are quite a few guys in the F15 world who flew A-10s, F-111s, F-4s/RF-4s, and OV-10s...and generally very few if any any made it to FWIC. Same rule also applies to former WSOs.(Again...likely a FEW exceptions) I don't know if the F16 community is the same--maybe some of those board regulars can throw in their 2 cents.

Not trying to rain on anyone's parade--just want you to understand some of the facts. There are plenty of exceptions to these rules, and oh by the way...you don't have to be a patch wearer to have a great career and to contribute to your unit, your weapon system community, and your country. However, if you think walking into the squadron with 1000 T-38 hours will make you more competitive down the road in your career, you may be unpleasantly surprised. If you want to do it because you think you would enjoy the experience, you enjoy teaching, and you feel like you can make a positive impact...then by all means volunteer for the job. If your goal is to be "the man" running the weapons shop in your fighter squadron or one day being an Squadron, Ops Grp, or Wing CC...I'd advise going operational at the earliest opportunity, provided you are given a choice.

Good luck--you will have wings on your chest either way, and its a great way of life.

 

[CCDiscoB]

Luck4unme,

You say the T-38 is "fun to fly," sure it is, because that's all you know. Don't sell yourself short, the T-38 is a little toy compared to what's out there. Trust us, you'll have a lot more fun in the real Air Force. You sit at UPT everyday listening to IPs dictate, while you sit there thinking, "I can do that." Sure you can, but think how much more credibility you'll have coming back as an IP rather than being a FAIP (if hours are what you want). I bet when you get out in the CAF, you'll quickly change your mind about what's cool. Being a T-38 IP in not cool compared to being a MWS IP.

If you return to do an IP tour, you'll be a flight commander. When I was a Tweet flight commander, we had the best flight, and FAIPs were asking to come into my flight. What am I getting at, it's more fun being an IP as a Capt. then as a Lt.

 

[Draginass]

Despite many attempts by the USAF to make FAIP assignments more attractive, they remain a dead spot in one's career progression. If a FAIP goes to heavies, they usually go directly to the left seat. As an IP in heavies, my usual observation was that they were very good "sticks," but the "mission," the concept on how to run a crew (CRM), and how to operationally manage a formation, of course were sorely lacking. I'd say it takes about a year for a good FAIP to get comfortable in the new aircraft/mission . . . and that's usually when they're carefully managed with assignments, with sharp copilots and special consideration in scheduling to get them an accelerated breadth of experience.

All in all, if given a choice, I'd turn down a FAIP assignment and opt for going directly to a MWS. When AETC IP assignment assessements come down to the squadrons from headquarters, the eligible pilots scatter like cockroaches when the lights are turned on. Probably a bad analogy, but the best I can think of at the moment.

 

[T1bubba]

Just one other thing to think about- while I'm sure there are plenty of cases like Toro where FAIP's end up with a better assignment, from what I saw many of them got worse deals after their FAIP tour. Put another way, FAIP's were required to be in the top half of their UPT class but their assignments (at least on the T-1 side) were similar to the normal class drops. I saw some really good guys sent to E-3's and RC-135's.

And don't forget, whatever they promise you about your follow on today probably won't mean anything to the AFPC guy whose having trouble filling that slot in Grand Forks or Minot three years from now.