Failed Checkride on App

[88_MALIBU]

On an online application it asks whether the applicant has ever failed a part 91,121, or 135 checkride. Now I was under the impression my checkrides were all part 61-not 91. Can I answer "No" even though I did bust my CFI Oral 2 years ago at a part 61 school? Part 91 is "General Operating and Flight Rules"...

 

[sstearns2]

I'm sure they mean part 61. A lot of people don't pass their CFI oral the first time. Just turn it into a 'learned from it and got back on the horse' story and you'll be fine. It becomes a big problem if you don't tell them and they find out

Scott

 

[JetBlast2000]

Well, you could answer No, but that would not be a smart thing to do. Certification of airmen is part 61(or 141 for some schools). In other words, the requirements are spelled out in those sections. But the operations arena is part 91 for checkrides spelled out in part 61.
Airlines don’t expect everyone to ace all checkrides. They want to see if you can admit and take responsibility for your mistakes. If you only failed your CFI ride, it’s not a big deal. If asked in the interview, simply explain what happened.
Good luck
JBk2k

 

[DAS at 10/250]

I'm sure they mean part 61

I wouldn't be so sure. They have clearly asked for failures under three different areas of operations and not two areas of training and one operation.

I would believe they meant part 61 is they had listed "part 91, 141, or 142" but they didn't.

121 and 135 are not training standards. They are probably curious if anyone has ever failed a part 91 i.e. SimCom, FlightSafety, CAE Simuflite, Type Rating, NetJets, FlightOps, etc. checkride.

As written you can answer "no".

Just my two cents.

 

[88_MALIBU]

Thanks DAS... Thats interesting.

 

[semperfido]

i really don't think they care about primary flight training. they are most probably interested in more advanced failures. no one would care if you blew an elementary school test. but as in .all cases let your conscience be your guide. whichever you answer, it won't be the deciding factor.

 

[Ty Webb]

As written you can answer "no".

Just my two cents.

They are required to get your records from the FAA. Do you think that when they see that failure that they will agree with your explanation of why you didn't report it? If they said Part 91 checkride, they obviously meant 61, since no checkride is conducted under 91. They probably are well aware of how it is worded, and may even be looking to see who is upfront, and who is trying to skirt the issue. There may very well be a follow-up question during the interview- somehting like, "I see you are reporting no training failures . . . . so you passed every checkride the first time?".

"Uh, well, uh, not exactly, but since it was Part 61, uh, I thought, uh, that I didn;t have to report it . . . ".

I have seen guys pulled out of Indoc and fired because of things that turned up on their background check after they were already hired and in class. If you want to take a chance on that, you go right ahead.

Many of the pilots I fly with have failed a checkride at some point in their career. It is not unusual- just be prepared to briefly summarize what happened, accept responsibility, and tell them what you have done to make sure that it doesn;t happen again. . . . No biggy, but trying to explain away not telling them . . . . good luck.

 

[English]

Many of the pilots I fly with have failed a checkride at some point in their career. It is not unusual-

Wow, really? I thought the checkride bust thing was a rarity at the level of an airline like AirTran.

 

[NOCONTRACT4U]

They are required to get your records from the FAA. Do you think that when they see that failure that they will agree with your explanation of why you didn't report it?

Well this makes me curious... with the PRIA and all. When you sign the records release for for your potential employer does it even say records pertaining to "checkrides?" It says to release for "incidents, accidents, etc in the last 5 or 10 yrs," but I don't recall checkrides.. so my question, what all does the FAA release with or without your consent???

Some guy was telling me that at his 141 flight school they didn't take checkrides, but stage checks, and they didn't get a "pink slip" but a redo for that stage check.. So how does that work with the record keeping, should guys go the 141 in-house route?

 

[350DRIVER]

Well this makes me curious... with the PRIA and all. When you sign the records release for for your potential employer does it even say records pertaining to "checkrides?" It says to release for "incidents, accidents, etc in the last 5 or 10 yrs," but I don't recall checkrides.. so my question, what all does the FAA release with or without your consent???

Some guy was telling me that at his 141 flight school they didn't take checkrides, but stage checks, and they didn't get a "pink slip" but a redo for that stage check.. So how does that work with the record keeping, should guys go the 141 in-house route?

The failed checkrides are part of your airman records that are on file in OKC. You are simply releasing these records which also includes any and all incident/accidents that may or may not be part of your airman file.

You do take "stage checks" under part 141 but you also do a checkride upon completion of the course in which the flight school may or may not have inhouse authorization to conduct the checkrides. You still must complete the 8710 which is forwarded on to the airman certification branch and those become part of your airman file.

As Ty has previously mentioned, many have failed a ride at some point in time and have been able to obtain success.. A pink slip is in no way a career show stopper. I have flown with many who have pinked a checkride and it isn't viewed as that big of a deal.

3 5 0

 

[NOCONTRACT4U]

A pink slip is in no way a career show stopper

Yeah, but he said they got no pinkslip.. so no record w/the FAA, just an unsat or something for the stagecheck. Then when he got a Sat they gave hime a temp certificate (I guess inhouse checkride authority.) Could that be correct for the 141 environment? Should he have checked the box... b/c I told him no pink no failed checkride and I don't want him getting pulled out of training..

He got the unsat in the morn on the stage check, flew with his instructor, did a bounce (or whatever manuever) with the in house person, filled out only one 8710 for the am 1st flight, didn't get a pink (which I believe you have to sign so he would remember that,) the got his temp cert the PM of the same day..

Just real upset I may have screwed the guy with my "have you ever gotten a pink slip," he said no and I told him to check no...

 

[350DRIVER]

NOCONTRACT4U,

I would have to say that he has nothing to be concerned about then. Sounds like this particular outfit does have inhouse checkride authorization and if that is the case then the "unsat" part would be chalked up as an additional "training flight", atleast that has always been my understanding of this issue. I don't think this would be forwarded on to the FAA and it wouldn't have been noted on the 8710 thus no record of a "failure" would be present in his airman file. I may be mistaken but that has always been my take on this issue. If he would have been issued the pink slip then obviously it changes this completely since the DE then has to submit a copy to the FAA. I have never pinked or failed a ride in any part of aviation so my experience is somewhat limited.

No pink would mean no failed ride in my opinion with regard to the above scenario. He would simply have the "additional" flight/unsat noted in his 141 folder which is kept on file with the training outfit, pretty sure these are not forwarded to the FAA nor would these filed be forwarded to future employers.

3 5 0

 

[NOCONTRACT4U]

Ok, I am in the same boat as you. I never pinked, but I did have a student fail a ride and we had to fill out another 8710 and schedule another ride with the DE. I wasn't clear on the 141 side at all with the inhouse examining. (In the above case it was associated with a major university training program.)

Back to my side question, since this inhouse examination with 141, is it better to get someone their ratings with less chance of pink (but obviously more regimented training) via a 141 school?

Thanks for the replies 350! (I feel a lot better now, not thinking I told someone to mark the wrong box... and possibly ending their career befoe it even starts!)

 

[Ty Webb]

Wow, really? I thought the checkride bust thing was a rarity at the level of an airline like AirTran.

I meant that some of the Captains I flew with had mentioned that they failed either a Pvt, Comm, CFI, CFII checkride at some point during the pursuit of their certificates/ratings. My point was that it hadn't impeded their having been hired at several airlines thereafter.

Since you mentioned, it, there actually was a pretty high upgrade bust rate when the DC9 FO's were trying to upgrade on the 717. Many of them had no glass, FMC or 121 PIC experience, and the ride was extremely tough. There were plenty of busts.

Thankfully, those days are past, and the pass rate is is probably better than 90%.

 

[Cosmo1999]

I looked at a copy of my background check and failed checkrides did not show up. I believe what they are looking for is honesty. Just admit you busted a ride, show them what you learned and move on. I have never heard of anyone being disqualified because they failed a checkride however plenty have been disqualified for lying. Im sure they can find out if they want to im not sure if they check or not.. Just mark the truth and you wont have to worry about it. Sometimes they dont even ask you in an interview. Trying to use technicalities is a good way to get canned. Being honest is a good way to get hired... good luck

 

[Ty Webb]

I looked at a copy of my background check and failed checkrides did not show up.

Funny, I got a copy of mine, and my medical records from the FAA too, and it showed every application I had submitted for a certificate or rating. It also showed when I had requested a duplicate medical or certificate, and even the phone calls I had made to OKC on several issues. . . . going back to the mid-1980's.

If yours didn't show everything, I don;t know what to tell you. Did you request your medical records, too?

In any event, play it straight. They won't disqualify you for a previous bust, but they will disqualify you for lying. Yeah, we know, it didn't say Part 61 . . . and Clinton didn;t have sex with "That farm animal, Ms Lew-whiskey . . .".

 

[Krusty]

ok, what about Type rating check rides, I know someone that has failed three of his three type ratings??

wow!?

 

[Ty Webb]

ok, what about Type rating check rides, I know someone that has failed three of his three type ratings??

wow!?

Failed three type-ratings? You've got to be kidding. If that's the case, I wouldn't let him operate a weed-whacker, let alone an airplane.

 

[TWA Dude]

Two things, just for clarification. At Part 141 schools with self-examining authority it's only a bust if a pink slip is issued. 141 schools do have to report unsat checks to the FAA as part of their record keeping but that has nothing to do with the pilots' records. A retraining event is therefore not a bust. (Don't ask how I know this!)

Second, when airline apps ask for failed checkrides include all of them, period. Interestingly, the AWA app didn't ask to list fails. At my interview when they asked if there was anything they should know I said yes, I pinked my CFI flight-initial and my ATP oral and I'd be happy to talk about it to their heart's content. They weren't even curious.

 

[Cosmo1999]

Funny, I got a copy of mine, and my medical records from the FAA too, and it showed every application I had submitted for a certificate or rating. It also showed when I had requested a duplicate medical or certificate, and even the phone calls I had made to OKC on several issues. . . . going back to the mid-1980's.

If yours didn't show everything, I don;t know what to tell you. Did you request your medical records, too?

In any event, play it straight. They won't disqualify you for a previous bust, but they will disqualify you for lying. Yeah, we know, it didn't say Part 61 . . . and Clinton didn;t have sex with "That farm animal, Ms Lew-whiskey . . .".

I just asked for a copy of what the company saw. All that was sent to them was the fact that I had a commercial lisence, no violations, accidents, or incidents and a first class medical. I didnt order straight from the FAA but I looked at all the company had on me... If im asked I tell them about it, if not I dont. Havent had a problem yet.