FAA to scrutinize AA

[waveflyer]

Last time I checked, Proficency checkrides were to remain profecient on procedures that are not normal....ie: engine failure/fire procedures, ect. Pc's are not usually to train hand flying.

I have NEVER had a checkride in 15000 hours where the examiner said lets see your hand flying skills....except the requirement to do so on a single engine ILS marker inbound approach.

FedEx had been starting that. Don't know about now.

Again- this is EXACTLY the attitude and environment that makes it unpopular to click off the automation. This idea that flying is ever natural is all ego. We are NOT robots. Flying is a proficiency- and if you never click off the electronic help, skills WILL erode no matter how talented and skilled you used to be.

We need to set the example and hand fly more- and create an environment where our fellow pilots are encouraged to - ESPECIALLY if they are NOT comfortable with their abilities at that point in time. It's not a critique on them as pilots- it's that everyone WILL lose proficiency and should be encouraged to get it back. Just like we ALL need to study and review things we should know.

 

[Lear70]

Military straight into SWA?

Lear, it seemed to me you were disparaging pilots who come from a military background. I am tired of the civ/mil arguments. We are all civilians now. Maybe that is not what you intended. I have read a lot of your posts and you seem like a good guy, so I'll leave it at that.

I did not explain my opinion very well in my first post of this thread because I was on my phone and it is hard to type.

Not disparaging, I've simply seen some ideas come out of military pilots that usually have to be straightened out on the line. What I've seen over the last 20 years is a tendency for military pilots to be very linear in their thinking and very procedure-oriented. This is not altogether BAD, it can actually HELP cockpit discipline, but some things the schoolhouse teaches are a really BAD idea.

The level of automation-dependence is one of those things, along with the reluctance to take it off to practice when the opportunity arises. It takes a while to get *SOME* (read, not all) military pilots out of that box and independently thinking and acting.

Sorry it came across as anti-military. I actually always WANTED to fly for the military, but broke my ankle snow skiing as a teenager and couldn't get a waiver for the pins I had, even after I had them removed. Such is life.

We all agree that we should be proficient at hand flying the airplane. I just think it is better to gain that proficiency by hand flying in a lower workload environment. To me it is a risk management decision, not a "can I do it" decision. Each airline has a different view of automation, some strongly discourage or in certain conditions forbid hand flying, some require it in those same conditions. You guys write as if I am stupid to have the opinion I do. We can respectfully agree to disagree. In any case I do not think a lack of ability caused the incidents that started this thread. It could happen to any of us.

I didn't mean to assert that you were stupid. Quite obviously, as an experienced military aviator and a major airline pilot, stupid isn't what most of us were likely going for (I know I wasn't). However, I will *NEVER*, *EVER* adhere to ANY airline's insistence on automation dependence. Pinnacle did it, AirTran did it, and I won't. Ever.

I'm a professional pilot. I know when to use appropriate levels of automation and when it's not as necessary and it would be a good opportunity to practice my hand-flying skills. The training people who tend to train to the lowest, common denominator and have been in the schoolhouse too long who are pushing that much focus on automation need to get back out on the line.

And I'm not that certain lack of hand-flying skills didn't play a part in this incident, and have in several others in the last couple years.

I have NEVER had a checkride in 15000 hours where the examiner said lets see your hand flying skills....except the requirement to do so on a single engine ILS marker inbound approach.

The examiner never HAS to say that. It's implied in the REQUIRED maneuvers that are performed by hand.

Remember steep turns? Stalls? Engine fire/failures after V1, and yes, the hand-flown single-engine ILS to minimums and a full-stop? Those ALL test your hand-flying skills, and I've watched pilots who have been in the left seat for YEARS fail a PC because they haven't been hand-flying the airplane enough and have a bad day.

Hand-flying, as wave-flyer and so many others have stated, is a skill. Just like any other. It has to be regularly practiced to remain proficient.