FAA F/A License

[bafanguy]

Today, my wife got an official FAA F/A license in the mail from the FAA Airman Certification Branch in OKC. Same plastic ticket you've got in your pocket but on the back it says, "Flight Attendant, Group II". Dated 19 NOV 04.

She's in Europe so I can't ask her about it, but she never mentioned anything about this ( I can hear her laughing now ).

What's the deal...new FAR ? If so, which one and does she have to carry it while "exercising the privileges...". This is a new idea to me. I assume it has something to do with security ?

 

[LR60BOY]

My wife got one the other day also. It also says Flight Attendant, Group II. Can anyone shed any light?

 

[jbud]

...counting the replys until some private pilot asks about adding this rating to his certificate

 

[MED]

What's next? FA carrying guns?

 

[atldc9]

Public Law 108-176 made certification of FA's mandatory. It was part of the Vision 100 Act. The text of the law is below...


SEC. 814. FLIGHT ATTENDANT CERTIFICATION.

(a) In General.--Chapter 447 is further amended by adding at the end
the following:

``Sec. 44728. Flight attendant certification

``(a) Certificate Required.--
``(1) In general.--No person may serve as a flight attendant
aboard an aircraft of an air carrier unless that person

[[Page 117 STAT. 2591]]

holds a certificate of demonstrated proficiency from the
Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration. Upon the
request of the Administrator or an authorized representative of
the National Transportation Safety Board or another Federal
agency, a person who holds such a certificate shall present the
certificate for inspection within a reasonable period of time
after the date of the request.
``(2) Special rule for current flight attendants.--An
individual serving as a flight attendant on the effective date
of this section may continue to serve aboard an aircraft as a
flight attendant until completion by that individual of the
required recurrent or requalification training and subsequent
certification under this section.
``(3) Treatment of flight attendant after notification.--On
the date that the Administrator is notified by an air carrier
that an individual has the demonstrated proficiency to be a
flight attendant, the individual shall be treated for purposes
of this section as holding a certificate issued under the
section.

``(b) Issuance of Certificate.--The Administrator shall issue a
certificate of demonstrated proficiency under this section to an
individual after the Administrator is notified by the air carrier that
the individual has successfully completed all the training requirements
for flight attendants approved by the Administrator.
``(c) Designation of Person To Determine Successful Completion of
Training.--In accordance with part 183 of chapter 14, Code of Federal
Regulation, the director of operations of an air carrier is designated
to determine that an individual has successfully completed the training
requirements approved by the Administrator for such individual to serve
as a flight attendant.
``(d) Specifications Relating to Certificates.--Each certificate
issued under this section shall--
``(1) be numbered and recorded by the Administrator;
``(2) contain the name, address, and description of the
individual to whom the certificate is issued;
``(3) is similar in size and appearance to certificates
issued to airmen;
``(4) contain the airplane group for which the certificate
is issued; and
``(5) <<NOTE: Deadlines.>> be issued not later than 120 days
after the Administrator receives notification from the air
carrier of demonstrated proficiency and, in the case of an
individual serving as flight attendant on the effective date of
this section, not later than 1 year after such effective date.

``(e) Approval of Training Programs.--Air carrier flight attendant
training programs shall be subject to approval by the Administrator. All
flight attendant training programs approved by the Administrator in the
1-year period ending on the date of enactment of this section shall be
treated as providing a demonstrated proficiency for purposes of meeting
the certification requirements of this section.
``(f) Flight Attendant Defined.--In this section, the term `flight
attendant' means an individual working as a flight attendant in the
cabin of an aircraft that has 20 or more seats and is being used by an
air carrier to provide air transportation.''.

[[Page 117 STAT. 2592]]

(b) Conforming Amendment.--The analysis for chapter 447 is further
amended by adding at the end the following:

``44728. Flight attendant certification.''.

(c) Effective Date.--The <<NOTE: 49 USC 44728 note.>> amendments
made by subsections (a) and (b) shall take effect on the 365th day
following the date of enactment of this Act

 

[MED]

The real question is if every Beech 1900 and Metro F/O is getting this certificate too!!

Now that was funny

 

[mmmdonut]

Why are you opening your wife's mail??

 

[lowlycfi]

Got mine in the mail the other day too. Doesn't have to be carried when slingin' drinks. But you do have to have one if you want to be a stew now. Completing training at the airline you work for will get you one. I put it back in the envelope and filed it away in the folder marked THINGS THAT I WILL NEVER HAVE TO USE BUT SHOULD PROBABLY KEEP ANYWAY.

These "CERTIFICATES" came about through some hard lobbying by AFA. The reasoning from what I understand was so that flight attendants would be "recognized" as crewmembers, treated with respect, blah, blah, blah. Not sure how a piece of plastic is supposed to make this happen. I just see it as something the FAA can suspend or revoke if I have a page missing from my manual or forget to tell a pax to put his tray table up. My F/A certificate has a different number from my pilot, flight instructor, and ground instructor certificates, so hopefully the Feds wouldn't come after those as well.

The "ratings" are as follows...
Group I = propeller driven, Group II- turbine

 

[bafanguy]

Why are you opening your wife's mail??

I open some of hers...she opens some of mine. After you've been married 26 years, you'll know why things like this just don't matter all that much.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

I open some of hers...she opens some of mine. After you've been married 26 years, you'll know why things like this just don't matter all that much.

I agree, there's more important things in a marriage to bicker about.

 

[bafanguy]

I agree, there's more important things in a marriage to bicker about.

Stifler,

You got that right. I'd be a lot more concerned about a marriage where things were arriving in the mail that one spouse didn't want the other to see !! You know, like a letter telling when you were supposed to bring you spouse and appear on the Jerry Springer Show.

 

[bafanguy]

atldc9,

Thanks for the reprint of the law re the FA license. Was that law part of what we'd recognize as an FAR? From the section numbers, it doesn't "appear" to be in an FAR.

Also, I'm surprised they aren't required to carry it while at work. Since there is mention of producing it for a fed, you'd think there'd be a carry requirement like pilots have. The bit about "...within a reasonable period of time after the date of the request..." could be satisfied by the feds verifying qualifications/identity with the airline management if they don't expect a FA to have the license on their person, thereby making issuing a license a useless exercise.

There must be more to this exercise than I can see from here. Well, gotta run open some more of my wife's mail now.

 

[atldc9]

The section numbers, 49 USC 44728 refer to the United States Code, or the actual law itself. There are a bunch of things Congress has mandated that are part of law, others that the FAA has regulated.

Check out the following:

http://www.access.gpo.gov/uscode/title49/subtitlevii_parta_subpartiii_chapter447_.htm

THe whole document for Cabin Safety Inspectors is available at:

[font=&quot]http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/notices/8400/N8400-64.doc

As far as the FA's having to carry it onboard, see the following excerpt:
[/font]
b. No person may serve as a flight attendant aboard an aircraft of an air carrier unless that person holds a certificate of demonstrated proficiency issued by the FAA.



NOTE: The Act distinguishes between this certificate and an airman’s certificate. This certificate is not an airman’s certificate as specified in

Title 49 of the United States Code (49 U.S.C.), section 44703; it is a separate kind of certificate as specified in 49 U.S.C., section 44728.



c. If requested, flight attendants shall present their certificate to the FAA, the National Transportation Safety Board, or another Federal agency within a reasonable period of time after the date of request (FAA policy: 15 days).

l

 

[Slim]

Flight attendant certification may turn out to be a mixed blessing.

I didn't see any requirement to maintain any health standard as we do. While this isn't part of any law yet, it could be in the future. Many years ago, the AA F/A working agreement provided for a company paid, annual physical. In the 1981 agreement, that provision was dropped. The APFA felt it could provide the company grounds to terminate F/As who couldn't/wouldn't maintain their health.

Certification provides the F/A groups with a little more leverage in contract negotiations. In theory, they can withdraw their services by refusing to exercise the priviledges of their certificate. The certification requirement will make it a little more difficult for an airline to replace striking F/As. Replacement of striking F/As, in today's environment, might be something legacy carriers would welcome the opportunity to do.

Fly safe!

 

[qmaster3]

What's next? FA carrying guns?

Great. Now we can't bit*h about bad service.

 

[FracCapt]

Great. Now we can't bit*h about bad service.

Sure ya can. Not every pilot carries a gun...not every FA would either....choose wisely.

 

[Resume Writer]

I have a feeling the reason why AFA lobbied this was one more step toward getting rest requirements. I don't think there are any rest requirements, except if they are in a contract. Even then, some of the scheduling is driven by the pilots.

It might not seem like it would be a job that would make you tired, but pushing those carts around (on the 757 they weigh about 200 pounds) on a short hop from PHX to LAS, gets tiring. Also, being "happy" all day with passengers does get exhausting. I used to come home from my trips, after giving a "cocktail party" to 1500 of my closest friends every weekend, and not want to go out anywhere that people were congregating.

Just my two cents...

Kathy

 

[qmaster3]

Sure ya can. Not every pilot carries a gun...not every FA would either....choose wisely.

I don't gamble.

Seriously Kathy qmaster3 isn't a pest of a passenger. An F/A buddy of mine had an obnoxious passenger complaining that the alcohol was gone. He told the guy he needed to sit, because he wasn't creating a "happy cabin atmosphere". Have a good one.

 

[JAFI]

One more thing to think about:

In the past with no F/A certificate all violations were against the company. With a certificate of your very own the violation is against you. So keep those manuals up to date and do not leave the aircraft with pax on board to get a mocca latte.

JAFI

 

[lowlycfi]

I have a feeling the reason why AFA lobbied this was one more step toward getting rest requirements. I don't think there are any rest requirements, except if they are in a contract.

We do have duty and rest regs. Just parts are quoted here:
§ 121.467 Flight attendant duty period limitations and rest requirements: Domestic, flag, and supplemental operations.

(1) Except as provided in paragraphs (b)(4), (b)(5), and (b)(6) of this section, no certificate holder conducting domestic, flag, or supplemental operations may assign a flight attendant to a scheduled duty period of more than 14 hours.

(2) Except as provided in paragraph (b)(3) of this section, a flight attendant scheduled to a duty period of 14 hours or less as provided under paragraph (b)(1) of this section must be given a scheduled rest period of at least 9 consecutive hours. This rest period must occur between the completion of the scheduled duty period and the commencement of the subsequent duty period.

(3) The rest period required under paragraph (b)(2) of this section may be scheduled or reduced to 8 consecutive hours if the flight attendant is provided a subsequent rest period of at least 10 consecutive hours; this subsequent rest period must be scheduled to begin no later than 24 hours after the beginning of the reduced rest period and must occur between the completion of the scheduled duty period and the commencement of the subsequent duty period.

(4) A certificate holder conducting domestic, flag, or supplemental operations may assign a flight attendant to a scheduled duty period of more than 14 hours, but no more than 16 hours, if the certificate holder has assigned to the flight or flights in that duty period at least one flight attendant in addition to the minimum flight attendant complement required for the flight or flights in that duty period under the certificate holder's operations specifications.

(5) A certificate holder conducting domestic, flag, or supplemental operations may assign a flight attendant to a scheduled duty period of more than 16 hours, but no more than 18 hours, if the certificate holder has assigned to the flight or flights in that duty period at least two flight attendants in addition to the minimum flight attendant complement required for the flight or flights in that duty period under the certificate holder's operations specifications.

(6) A certificate holder conducting domestic, flag, or supplemental operations may assign a flight attendant to a scheduled duty period of more than 18 hours, but no more than 20 hours, if the scheduled duty period includes one or more flights that land or take off outside the 48 contiguous states and the District of Columbia, and if the certificate holder has assigned to the flight or flights in that duty period at least three flight attendants in addition to the minimum flight attendant complement required for the flight or flights in that duty period under the domestic certificate holder's operations specifications.

(7) Except as provided in paragraph (b)(8) of this section, a flight attendant scheduled to a duty period of more than 14 hours but no more than 20 hours, as provided in paragraphs (b)(4), (b)(5), and (b)(6) of this section, must be given a scheduled rest period of at least 12 consecutive hours. This rest period must occur between the completion of the scheduled duty period and the commencement of the subsequent duty period.

(8) The rest period required under paragraph (b)(7) of this section may be scheduled or reduced to 10 consecutive hours if the flight attendant is provided a subsequent rest period of at least 14 consecutive hours; this subsequent rest period must be scheduled to begin no later than 24 hours after the beginning of the reduced rest period and must occur between the completion of the scheduled duty period and the commencement of the subsequent duty period.

(9) Notwithstanding paragraphs (b)(4), (b)(5), and (b)(6) of this section, if a certificate holder conducting domestic, flag, or supplemental operations elects to reduce the rest period to 10 hours as authorized by paragraph (b)(8) of this section, the certificate holder may not schedule a flight attendant for a duty period of more than 14 hours during the 24-hour period commencing after the beginning of the reduced rest period.

(10) No certificate holder conducting domestic, flag, or supplemental operations may assign a flight attendant any duty period with the certificate holder unless the flight attendant has had at least the minimum rest required under this section.

(11) No certificate holder conducting domestic, flag, or supplemental operations may assign a flight attendant to perform any duty with the certificate holder during any required rest period.

(12) Time spent in transportation, not local in character, that a certificate holder conducting domestic, flag, or supplemental operations requires of a flight attendant and provides to transport the flight attendant to an airport at which that flight attendant is to serve on a flight as a crewmember, or from an airport at which the flight attendant was relieved from duty to return to the flight attendant's home station, is not considered part of a rest period.

(13) Each certificate holder conducting domestic, flag, or supplemental operations must relieve each flight attendant engaged in air transportation and each commercial operator must relieve each flight attendant engaged in air commerce from all further duty for at least 24 consecutive hours during any 7 consecutive calendar days.

(14) A flight attendant is not considered to be scheduled for duty in excess of duty period limitations if the flights to which the flight attendant is assigned are scheduled and normally terminate within the limitations but due to circumstances beyond the control of the certificate holder conducting domestic, flag, or supplemental operations (such as adverse weather conditions) are not at the time of departure expected to reach their destination within the scheduled time.