Ever have words with somebody on Unicom?

[FN FAL]

I b!tched a guy out on UNICOM the other night. No nav lights on in a twin cessna at night, no beacon, no landing lights. I was doing tight turns over the field at 5,000 feet and never saw the plane on final for the ILS runway, nor did I see it circle, land, roll out or taxi to the ramp! In fact I had to querry the guy to see if he had landed.

He was on an IFR flight plan, but not talking to center since leaving his departure field... but his radio worked fine while blind announcing for 25 minutes during an own nav ILS in a radar environment at a non-towered field, gawd I must have heard "procedure turn outbound" 10 times. It sounded like he was eating a bag of pork rinds while he was talking on the radio...and he was talking r e a l s l o w. He then decides to to make a large airliner style circle to land to the shorter narrower runway, I guess because the quartering headwind of 8 knots was too much for him . Never saw him circle...but based on the radio calls it must have been a real beauty, because that took forever too. I kept looking down there and never saw him.

His first concern after landing was the wherabouts of the "limosine service" and the "heated hanger" he had pre-arranged. I interupted his radio chat with the FBO attendant to ask him to cancel his IFR so I could quit circling the field at 5,000 feet in a "visual" hold with an EFC and deminishing fuel supply and diminishing opportunity to eat supper before my next scheduled departure time.

His reply was that his radio didn't work on center frequency. That's when I laid into him... I finally got center to accept the fact that I relayed a cancellation for this guy and chopped and dropped, by the time I got the chocks on the wheels and the tail stand in, the guy was gone. Center did ask me to have the guy call him, because he took his clearance out of xyz field about 100 miles away, departed and never talked to anybody at center the whole trip.

Freight runners pilot told me they all had leather flying jackets and Purdy Neat roll on luggage. Old airline pilots? Gawd I'm getting sick of the owner flown twin crowd...and I used to own one.

 

[Styles]

I b!tched a guy out on UNICOM the other night. No nav lights on in a twin cessna at night, no beacon, no landing lights. I was doing tight turns over the field at 5,000 feet and never saw the plane on final for the ILS runway, nor did I see it circle, land, roll out or taxi to the ramp! In fact I had to querry the guy to see if he had landed.....

Sorry to hear that bro but at least you did something about it! All I have to say is you were in the right. Too bad you did not record it for us to hear though lol I could use a good laugh right now.

 

[seethru]

God I hate bozos like that. Inconsiderate and dangerous, not to mention arrogant as all get out. They’re no different than those yayhoos on the highway.

“Breathe and focus”. That’s what I tell myself, “Breathe and focus”.

I’d like nothing more than to key the mic and give them a piece of my mind. Of course when I do that usually what comes out is something pretty stupid. By the time I have driven home and thought about it for a while I will have come up with something clever to say.

The worst I ever encountered was while I was descending over La Grande, OR. This guy in a C172 came out of nowhere, unannounced, and proceeded to land on a taxiway, crossing the active runway. The weekend warriors at Scappoose run a close second.

 

[FN FAL]

Sorry to hear that bro but at least you did something about it! All I have to say is you were in the right. Too bad you did not record it for us to hear though lol I could use a good laugh right now.

I know we all have forgotten to close out now and then, but this was just the icing on the cake..."My limo, my heated hanger, yadda yadda yadda!" This guy would have landed and got in his ride and left that plan open for sure.

 

[Hawker rider]

One question though.. If you were at 5000 feet overhead the field, and you could see the airplane, and he airport, why didn't you cancel IFR yourself and continue VFR for a landing?

 

[Propsync]

It's not like it was that long ago, and hearing this makes me wish I still was flight instructing. My dad always said, 'just know that some people are just stupid'. They don't know any better. I would have lit him up on the radio, and then turn him in to the local FSDO. It's really almost a reckless operation. No radio, no lights, what about the transponder? I don't feel bad about calling the FSDO on people, mainly because they don't realize the severity of what they are doing. I turned in a TV chopper pilot who was out flying in a heck of a nasty squall line, and 'happened' to film a tornado. He was about 4-5 miles away. Next day I get people telling me they want to see a tornado. Another great stride in aviation.

Hawker- I bet his cargo company doesn't allow them to cancel before they reach terra firma. It's kind of a safety thing. If something happens, they will at least start a search. Before you jump, I do agree that 99% of the time it's just as safe to cancel.

 

[Sctt@NJA]

I don't feel bad about calling the FSDO on people, mainly because they don't realize the severity of what they are doing. I turned in a TV chopper pilot who was out flying in a heck of a nasty squall line

You know what you should do... you should watch people preflight and if they don't do a good enough job rat them out to the FSDO. Yeah and if someone taxis too fast (in your opinion of course) call the FSDO on them!

You know really we all need and want people like you around who is willing and ready to call the FSDO whenever you see something you don't like.

Just have to beware of karma though cause like they say... what comes around goes around.

 

[seethru]

You know what you should do... you should watch people preflight and if they don't do a good enough job rat them out to the FSDO. Yeah and if someone taxis too fast (in your opinion of course) call the FSDO on them!

You know really we all need and want people like you around who is willing and ready to call the FSDO whenever you see something you don't like.

Just have to beware of karma though cause like they say... what comes around goes around.

I think you're missing the point.

I see stupid people everyday, doing stupid things. Hey, if it weren't for them, I'd be out of a job (firefighter). That doesn't mean I get on the horn and call the FSDO, cops, or whoever because they broke some little rule.

The example that FN FAL (what's that mean anway) has laid out is going to get somebody killed. And I don't care about the idiot who's causing the problem. I do care about the poor, unsuspecting pilot who happens to be where he ought to be, following procedures, and gets creamed because of idiots like this.

I would prefer to speak with the individual directly, first. After all, we all make mistakes. I don't mind keeping the matter at the lowest level possible. But if talking to the individual gets you nowhere, or you see him/her continuing to comit unsafe acts, then bump it up to the next level.

Greg

 

[Propsync]

Too bad you miss the point, you're being a little petty. If a chopper pilot is saying how cool this is to be that close to a tornado, on TV mind you, that reflects poorly on those who try to do the right thing as often as possible. I realize nobody's perfect, not even me. I'm talking about people with BLATENT disregard for life and property. I just think that if you see someone do something terribly riduculous, you shouldn't just say 'I would never do that' and let it fly. I live in a state where you get a reward for turning in drunk drivers. Is that a bad thing to do too?

Case in point. 135 operator flies from x to y with pax. Pilot/owner shuts an engine down inflight to save fuel. Tells pax the same. Everyone got there safely, well, didn't die. So is everyone to turn a blind eye because there's no loss of limb? I guess from now on we should all shut one down to save on fuel. @uck what anyone says. Times are tough. The pax turned them in, the operator got some sort of punishment. I can't recall what it was exactly, but I want to guess it was a fine and frequent visits.

I think I've only called twice. In ten+ years. No certificate action that I'm aware of. The safety inspector in one case said 'they're already on our list', the other time was thanks for the info. I don't get that 'anything goes when the feds aren't watching' attitude. You, your copilot, pax, families, etc. deserve better.

 

[rumpletumbler]

You could have scribbled a note in the plexiglass.

 

[minitour]

You could have scribbled a note in the plexiglass.

just make sure if you're going to do that you take a picture because I might just piss myself laughing...

-mini

 

[pilot_guy]

Bring it on!

Quoting a CFI friend of mine, I keep it professional in the air.

Now, that being said, here's the flipside. once I'm on the ground, anything goes. I'm not a rat, and growing up you didn't rat people out in my neighborhood. Even police officers don't respect their snitches, but you won't ever hear anyone say it.

I've exchanged a couple of words on the CTAF with people being stupid, cutting in front while on short final, or flying the wrong way in the pattern, etc. I've always kept it professional though when they try and talk some smack, and offered to discuss the matter further on the ramp. Haven't had any takers yet. I'm just waiting, cause I know some chest thumpin' arrogant a** piloting his ultra cool 172 or Warrior is gonna get the big head and wanna dance. At 5'8" and 160, I hope he is 6' plus.

I've been dying to use a towbar for something besides pulling a plane...

As for that guy on the twin with no lights, radio, and wouldn't cancel on the ground; I would've asked him to wait, even if it meant that I had to make something up. The leather jackets, luggage, heated hangar, and limo all just scream, "I need an attitude adjustment."

 

[FN FAL]

One question though.. If you were at 5000 feet overhead the field, and you could see the airplane, and he airport, why didn't you cancel IFR yourself and continue VFR for a landing?

Two things:

One...the guy was invisible, would you cancel an IFR and dive down to a mid air collision with a guy in twin you couldn't see? Everything about this guy said...stay away unless you see him.

Two...I can't cancel in the air, Ops manual prohibits it.

Field elevation is 1,600 feet, I was told to visually hold at 5,000 feet. That's hardly too far away to miss seeing a R model Cessna 310 at night. This guy flew in on the ILS, did a circle to a runway that was underneath me, landed, rolled out and taxied...and I didn't see a nav light, a beacon, a strobe, a taxi light or a landing light...nothing. I had to call down to ask him if he had landed yet...that's how much I didn't see him.

It's not that the plane was lost in a preponderance of local lighting...there isn't any around the airport...the town is four miles away. Even a beacon on the tail should have given his position away.

I'm sorry bud, I had the field 10 miles out...any nav lights or any other lighting on the aircraft should have been visible. This isn't just a story about a plane landing at an airport and I didn't GET to see it. We're talking about 5 minutes of where the FU<K is this guy?

 

[FN FAL]

You know what you should do... you should watch people preflight and if they don't do a good enough job rat them out to the FSDO. Yeah and if someone taxis too fast (in your opinion of course) call the FSDO on them!

You know really we all need and want people like you around who is willing and ready to call the FSDO whenever you see something you don't like.

Just have to beware of karma though cause like they say... what comes around goes around.

Ha, I had one of those jokers at the Lone Rock airport, by MSN.

He dove his "rv-6" looking homebuilt down in front of me to get down and be lower so he could have the "right of way" in the pattern. He had no electrical system, no, beacon, no strobes, no radio and a plane painted the same color as the corn field next to the airport. I had been cleared visual by Madison approach and had all three landing lights on. I wasn't coming in fast and had been dragging the Cessna 310R in with flaps, gear and the landing lights out and on because I had to get rid of altitude before getting to the airport. Since I was doing a long, slow, straight in approach...I self announced on CTAF more than usual, plus I was keeping an eye out for traffic.

When he did his short and low base hook turn to final and rolled wings level over the numbers, he wagged his wings back and forth several times then went around, he was too fast to land that taildragger. It was a speedy little airplane. We had enough separation that he could have landed and I could have landed behind him after he exited. The way that this all looked to me was like he saw me coming and set this up, like "I'll show you to come in on a straight in final!"

I get on the ramp and debark my passengers, he lands and taxis past with his canopy up like chuck yeager, shuts down his engine and glides past making a 180 u-turn and stop like Bob Hoover/Ramp Police. He gets out and starts a ramp tantrum about straight in approaches and the FAR's...I said, "As soon as my passengers get in their cab, we'll call the feds and get them out here!"

He got mad, cussed and made hand jestures like a mental patient and jumped back into his non-radio, non-transponder equiped, camoflauge colored green race plane and left. I went inside and met up with some of his flying buddies and they even said the guy was an asshole. When I went next door to have breakfast, one of the customers made a comment about the green plane that been doing aerobatics over the airport.

Hmmmm? I guess some guys get up in the morning and turn the shower on cold and run it for a while before they get in...just so they have something to biatch about first thing in the morning.

 

[A Squared]

PIPE DOWN SIZZLE CHEST! at 5' 8 160, I take dumps bigger than you.

hehehe, , I was thinking the same thing myself. I'm 5' 9" and about 175, and I always figured I was little on the small side ... certainly not a big bad hulking intimidator.

Talk about having "small man's disease" !!!!!!

 

[SloDoDriver]

God I hate bozos like that. Inconsiderate and dangerous, not to mention arrogant as all get out. They’re no different than those yayhoos on the highway.

“Breathe and focus”. That’s what I tell myself, “Breathe and focus”.

I’d like nothing more than to key the mic and give them a piece of my mind. Of course when I do that usually what comes out is something pretty stupid. By the time I have driven home and thought about it for a while I will have come up with something clever to say.

The worst I ever encountered was while I was descending over La Grande, OR. This guy in a C172 came out of nowhere, unannounced, and proceeded to land on a taxiway, crossing the active runway. The weekend warriors at Scappoose run a close second.

I agree about Scapoose....A friggin mess especially on the weekends with everybody tryin to get cheap gas...
One of the funniest things happened a while back with Capt Warren Petrie (peepee) from Channel 6 news. He was landing at Kelso when there was a TFR in effect because of the Trojan Nuke plant and 9/11......My friend got on Unicom and let him know he was in a TFR....He replied that he couldn't understand why.... he had checked the notams "yesterday". He is about 5'6" 150 and Aeroganttttt(sic).....

 

[typhoonpilot]

About 20 years ago I was taking aerobatic lessons at Santa Paula airport in California. We were at the end of the runway, had just finished our run-up and had started moving towards the hold short line. A student pilot in a Tomahawk comes out of nowhere and cuts us off. I remarked to the instructor that was pretty uncool. So we wait for him to takeoff. He stays in the pattern for touch and goes and we depart on a downwind departure. On downwind we saw this guy on short final, the instructor keys the mike and says, " TOMAHAWK 1234A GO-AROUND, GO-AROUND " Shortley followed by seeing him perform a go-around. It was pretty funny at the time and definitely got him back for cutting us off.


Typhoonpilot

 

[FN FAL]

I guess while we're discussing the bad side of the CTAF/Rampside meetings, I had a chance to talk to a local today as I was putting the caravan inside the hangar after spending almost two hours in +10 to -12 in visible moisture and various altitudes.

A old timer that owned a turbine powered bonanza came by to get a pirep before leaving. It was the worst forcasted situation to be flying props in our region, but in the end it wasn't all that bad if you had a plan. One of our guys effected bad decision making skills and wound up with a 110 knot cruise speed at Max Continious and couldn't climb anymore...sux to be climbing up the face of a cold front. Meanwhile, most of us got little more than just a trace...it was almost anti-climatic.

I give the local guy credit for coming by and asking how things were today. He sounded like the kind of pilot you could shoot the bull with, if he had more time and a big nap wasn't calling me back at the hotel.

 

[DX Rick]

On the flip side of CTAF, I had a guy scream my ear off because I announced once I was 7 miles out, and heading inbound. Just thought I'd let everyone know, because it sounded like there were 4-5 guys in the pattern doing work, with a quite a few others departing straight out. Typical busy Saturday morning in Chicago, under laying Class B air.
He told me I was nothing but radio polution, and cloging up the radio. Sarcasticly, I politely asked him to repeat himself, as he did.

Who is poluting the airwaves now? He wasn't to quick to get it though.

 

[FN FAL]

On the flip side of CTAF, I had a guy scream my ear off because I announced once I was 7 miles out, and heading inbound. Just thought I'd let everyone know, because it sounded like there were 4-5 guys in the pattern doing work, with a quite a few others departing straight out. Typical busy Saturday morning in Chicago, under laying Class B air.
He told me I was nothing but radio polution, and cloging up the radio. Sarcasticly, I politely asked him to repeat himself, as he did.

Who is poluting the airwaves now? He wasn't to quick to get it though.

7 miles? Heck, I would want to know that...especially if I was 3 miles outbound? WTF...I hear you on this type of thing, the berating is just tying up the freq times two.

I'll call 20 out in some cases because one, we have a DNR pilot based on the field that does special missions, we have an active flight school (not a big one, but they are active) and we have a snow plow crew that prides themselves on their work. Plus they want a PPR five minutes in advance...five minutes = 20 miles! (or close enough for government work)

 

[pilot_guy]

Woah, look at tough guy here. We're all shaking in out booties.

PIPE DOWN SIZZLE CHEST! at 5' 8 160, I take dumps bigger than you.

Like I said man, I'm usually cool till people start running their head...I'm just waiting for my day to come, and I know it will, cause it seems this industry attracts all the type A a**holes.

I don't mind using a tow bar, or whatever is handy. Btw, I am the so called type of chickensh*t bastard that would hit you when you ain't looking...sizzle chest or not, 10lbs of steel upside the noggin', and John Wayne you ain't. I'd keep smacking after the first one too, just to make sure you ain't getting back up.

There are no rules to fighting. Keep that in mind incase you ever do decide to mouth off to a small guy, cause there are people out there who either a: have skills, or b: have guns. We had a guy on a traffic accident down here who was muscled up and shooting the steroids, and he proceeded to beat on this "small" older man who had actually been hit from behind by the younger man's car. Little man pulled his Glock .40 and the fight was over, with deadly consequences unfortunately.

It ain't the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

 

[rchcfi]

Go to Alaska and try sharing the same airspace with all those guys flying around in their Cubs and such with no certificates.


Once I was on base getting ready to turn final, and a C-180 holding short yelled "Look out, you have a plane right under your nose." I immediately broke off the approach and saw an aircoupe just under my left wing maybe 50 feet or so. When I landed I ran smack over to him and politley asked if he new what a radio was and if he didn't have one, if he knew how to fly a proper pattern. His response was "I was reporting all the way in!" I said, "Well that guy holding short and I didn't hear ya!" He proceeded to yell at me, saying he was on 123.0 and making all his radio calls properly. That was when I told him "Arsewipe, the frequency here is 122.9!" He promptly crawled away.

 

[DX Rick]

Like I said man, I'm usually cool till people start running their head...I'm just waiting for my day to come, and I know it will, cause it seems this industry attracts all the type A a**holes.

I don't mind using a tow bar, or whatever is handy. Btw, I am the so called type of chickensh*t bastard that would hit you when you ain't looking...sizzle chest or not, 10lbs of steel upside the noggin', and John Wayne you ain't. I'd keep smacking after the first one too, just to make sure you ain't getting back up.

There are no rules to fighting. Keep that in mind incase you ever do decide to mouth off to a small guy, cause there are people out there who either a: have skills, or b: have guns. We had a guy on a traffic accident down here who was muscled up and shooting the steroids, and he proceeded to beat on this "small" older man who had actually been hit from behind by the younger man's car. Little man pulled his Glock .40 and the fight was over, with deadly consequences unfortunately.

It ain't the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

Man, you have serious issues if you sit around create a fight play by play in your head, then to post it on a message board. Do you want people to think you're some psycho tuff guy? Should we all be affraid of you?
Lighten' Up Francis!

Ever think about getting a girlfriend? It is known, that violence is stemed from built up sexual frustration.

 

[pilot_guy]

Man, you have serious issues if you sit around create a fight play by play in your head, then to post it on a message board. Do you want people to think you're some psycho tuff guy? Should we all be affraid of you?
Lighten' Up Francis!

Ever think about getting a girlfriend? It is known, that violence is stemed from built up sexual frustration.

Dude, get a clue...just pointing out that size is irrelevant. This wasn't meant to be some d*ck measuring contest, but I can tell you "tough guys" feel threatened.

As for the traffic accident, I had a friend of mine who responded to that call.

I don't expect anyone to be afraid of me. That wasn't the intention at all. Guy says he craps bigger than me, glad to see he's getting his fiber. Like I said, call it small man disease, or whatever you like, but don't underestimate small people, or anyone for that matter. Though I guess by your tone that we move in vastly different circles. There's not much fuss you can get into going from house to car to FBO to airplane and back again.

I've had enough LE training to know that smaller people and women are two of the most dangerous encounters a person can face, because those people often feel threatened by size. And yes, I will certainly pepper spray a guy before it even gets to that point, because it helps reduce the chances of injury to myself or the suspect.

Before you go spouting, why don't you actually read what I post? It wasn't meant to be taken as a threat. I guess you scare easily.

 

[DX Rick]

Before you go spouting, why don't you actually read what I post?.

I don't mind using a tow bar, or whatever is handy. Btw, I am the so called type of chickensh*t bastard that would hit you when you ain't looking...sizzle chest or not, 10lbs of steel upside the noggin', and John Wayne you ain't. I'd keep smacking after the first one too, just to make sure you ain't getting back up.

QUOTE]

What I read there is that if someone pisses you off, you will beat them with a tow bar, while they lay knocked out, and helpless.

Oh, and that you a coward that would hit another man when he isn't looking.

Again, you have issues.

 

[pilot_guy]

No rules to fighting, did you read that part? Or do you have selective memory?

Call me a coward if you like. Coward or not, I'd rather be the one giving the beating than getting beat. Doesn't bother me, cause I know I didn't start the fight, and that it's better to win than pick my teeth up off the ground after some big bastard knocked them out. If you don't like the rules, don't play.

I think you watched too many TV westerns as a kid, or maybe it was too much time with GI Joe? That whole good guys win/bad guys lose, and fair play in conflict thing has really warped your sense of reality. That, or you just haven't been in any real fights. School yard, highschool crap doesn't count junior. Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing that matters in a fight, and even then, you're still sore the next day. Avoid it when you can, but when you can't, make it count.

Get some life experience and come back, ok little boy?

 

[DX Rick]

No rules to fighting, did you read that part? Or do you have selective memory?

Call me a coward if you like. Coward or not, I'd rather be the one giving the beating than getting beat. Doesn't bother me, cause I know I didn't start the fight, and that it's better to win than pick my teeth up off the ground after some big bastard knocked them out. If you don't like the rules, don't play.

I think you watched too many TV westerns as a kid, or maybe it was too much time with GI Joe? That whole good guys win/bad guys lose, and fair play in conflict thing has really warped your sense of reality. That, or you just haven't been in any real fights. School yard, highschool crap doesn't count junior. Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing that matters in a fight, and even then, you're still sore the next day. Avoid it when you can, but when you can't, make it count.

Get some life experience and come back, ok little boy?

Ok, Skidmark.
There are rules to being a Man. A Man doesn't hit someone who isn't looking.
I wouldn't suprised if you told me you were that cop who picked up that lady and slammed her on the ground.

Go to bed Francis.

 

[pilot_guy]

You a college boy or something? I know you haven't been out in the world.

Rules to being a man, now I really gotta laugh. You have this sense of chivalry that's just so naive. You got this wannabe macho Dr. Phil thing going on. The whole "again you have issues" crap. That's just a copout. No one who was a "man" would come up with some lame passive sh*t like that.

Go back to watching flicks on Showtime, jackin' to those dreams of flying that RJ, and leave being a Man to those of us who still have the balls to be politically incorrect, know that the "right thing" to do isn't always the best course of action, and understand what conflict is all about.

I bet you still sit around telling stories about those high school days, but then again that was just last year, judging by your look at the world.

Where can I get that rulebook anyway? Life in the real world isn't black and white. It's not fair either, and you'd better learn that fast. Otherwise you're gonna be in for a d*mn rude awakening, especially in this industry. Who knows, maybe your mommy and daddy are picking up the tab on this one too?

Stick to what you know, whatever that may be, cause you're coming off like a punk who's never been anywhere.

 

[FN FAL]

Ok, Skidmark.
There are rules to being a Man. A Man doesn't hit someone who isn't looking.
I wouldn't suprised if you told me you were that cop who picked up that lady and slammed her on the ground.

Go to bed Francis.

I hear ya buddy...real men know how to push buttons until they can get a guy to take a swing at em with an object like a tow bar...then web hand em one in the throat. Can you say...tracheotomy?

 

[Styles]

Like I said man, I'm usually cool till people start running their head...I'm just waiting for my day to come, and I know it will, cause it seems this industry attracts all the type A a**holes.

You know come to think about it I was 18 and got my a$$ handed to me by a 5'7'' oh around 140-150lbs guy. I deserved it, I was just an arrogant little piss back in the day @ 6'1'' 185lbs and nothing could hurt me. The guy saw that I needed an attitude check and punched my ticket.

Who was he you may ask?

He was my drill instructor

Cheers,
Styles