Escaping 121

[barbiejet4life?]

HAWKERF/O - No, don't have 737 type, but did take written back in 2000 when every major still had at least one guy sittin' sideways. Haven't flown heavies.

EVERYONE ELSE KIND ENOUGH TO RESPOND - Been at ASA for seven plus years. Flown EMB120, then went to crj and then trasitioned to crj 700. Have about 5500hrs 3000 pic in RJs. (50 & 70)and am applying to all Majors and cargo. Just wondering, considering the state of the Majors/LCC, fuel costs, furloughs, etc....if it would be a safer option to try the corporate road. Seems like the starting pay, benefits and schedules at the bigger companies are about the same as what i'm making now . . .$74 an hour or 70k a year. Obviously, F500 companies would be great, but i am GUESSING they are as hard or harder to land as the majors.

That being said, which would be the first direction to go? Are there better sites / other sites than this listing jobs? I have seen some people on these boards mention fly to 350 or something? Any other webboards or sites with more info?

Again, just trying to make the first step here. Thanks again for any suggestions.

 

[BenderGonzales]

There is no "safe" option in aviation. You simply have to prepare for the worst -- all the time.

That means instead of buying the boat and the big house and the sportscars and the airplanes... put some cash in the bank. Have 6-12 months expenses in liquid assets. Pay off your cars and, if possible, your house. (Once the house is paid off it doesn't take much $$$ to pay for electricity, insurance, and heat)

All that being said, i've done both airline and corporate and I prefer corporate.

So here's a list of the top Fortune 100 (from 2003) to get you started. Revenue is in billions of dollars:

1. Wal-Mart Stores Inc., Bentonville, Ark., 1, $258.681
2. Exxon Mobil Corp., Irving, Texas, 3, $213.199
3. General Motors Corp., Detroit, 2, $195.645
4. Ford Motor Co., Dearborn, Mich., 4, $164.496
5. General Electric Co., Fairfield, Conn., 5, $134.187
6. ChevronTexaco Corp., San Ramon, Calif., 7, $112.937
7. ConocoPhillips, Houston, 12, $99.468
8. Citigroup Inc., New York, 6, $94.713
9. International Business Machines Corp., Armonk, N.Y., 8, $89.131
10. American International Group, Inc., New York, 9, $81.300
11. Hewlett-Packard Co., Palo Alto, Calif., 14, $73.061
12. Verizon Communications Inc., New York, 10, $67.752
13. The Home Depot Inc., Atlanta, 13, $64.816
14. Berkshire Hathaway Inc., Omaha, 28, $63.859
15. Altria Group Inc., New York, 11, $60.704
16. McKesson Corp., San Francisco, 20, $57.129
17. Cardinal Health Inc., Dublin, Ohio, 19, $56.830
18. State Farm Insurance Cos., Bloomington, Ill., 21, $56.065
19. The Kroger Co., Cincinnati, 18, $53.791
20. Fannie Mae, Washington, D.C., 16, $53.767
21. The Boeing Co., Chicago, 15, $50.485
22. AmerisourceBergen Corp., Chesterbrook, Pa., 24, $49.657
23. Target Corp., Minneapolis, 25, $48.163
24. Bank of America Corp., Charlotte, N.C., 23, $48.065
25. Pfizer Inc., New York, 37, $45.950
26. J.P. Morgan Chase & Co., New York, 26, $44.363
27. Time Warner Inc., New York, 29, $43.877
28. The Procter & Gamble Co., Cincinnati, 31, $43.377
29. Costco Wholesale Corp., Issaquah, Wash., 33, $42.546
30. Johnson & Johnson, New Brunswick, N.J., 34, $41.862
31. Dell Inc., Round Rock, Texas, 36, $41.444
32. Sears Roebuck and Co., Hoffman Estates, Ill., 30, $41.124
33. SBC Communications Inc., San Antonio, 27, $40.843
34. Valero Energy Corp, San Antonio, 55, $37.969
35. Marathon Oil Corp., Houston, 52, $37.137
36. MetLife Inc., New York, 38, $36.261
37. Safeway Inc., Pleasanton, Calif., 41, $35.553
38. Albertson's Inc., Boise, 35, $35.436
39. Morgan Stanley, New York, 40, $34.933
40. AT&T, Bedminster, N.J., 22, $34.529
41. Medco Health Solutions, Franklin Lakes, N.J., new to list, $34.265
42. United Parcel Service Inc., Atlanta, 43, $33.485
43. J.C. Penney Co. Inc., Plano, Texas, 42, $32.923
44. The Dow Chemical Co., Midland, Mich., 51, $32.632
45. Walgreen Co., Deerfield, Ill., 45, $32.505
46. Microsoft Corp., Redmond, Wash., 47, $32.187
47. The Allstate Corp., Northbrook, Ill., 44, $32.149
48. Lockheed Martin Corp., Bethesda, Md., 56, $31.844
49. Wells Fargo & Co., San Francisco, 46, $31.800
50. Lowe's Cos. Inc., Mooresville, N.C., 60, $31.263
51. United Technologies Corp., Hartford, Conn., 49, $31.034
52. Archer-Daniels-Midland Co., Decatur, Ill., 71, $30.708
53. Intel Corp., Santa Clara, Calif., 58, $30.141
54. UnitedHealth Group Inc., Minnetonka, Minn., 63, $28.823
55. Northrop Grumman Corp., Los Angeles, 99, $28.686
56. Delphi Corp., Troy, Mich., 53, $28.096
57. Prudential Financial Inc., Newark, N.J., 57, $27.907
58. Merrill Lynch & Co. Inc., New York, 48, $27.745
59. E.I. du Pont de Nemours, Wilmington, Del., 67, $27.730
60. The Walt Disney Co., Burbank, Calif., 61, $27.061
61. Motorola Inc., Schaumburg, Ill., 59, $27.058
62. PepsiCo Inc., Purchase, N.Y., 62, $26.971
63. CVS Corp., Woonsocket, R.I., 68, $26.588
64. Viacom Inc., New York, 66, $26.585
65. Sprint Corp., Overland Park, Kan., 54, $26.202
66. Sysco Corp., Houston, 73, $26.140
67. Kmart Holding Corp., Troy, Mich., 39, $26.032
68. TIAA-CREF, New York, 89, $26.016
69. American Express Co., New York, 69, $25.866
70. New York Life Insurance Co., New York, 65, $25.700
71. International Paper Co., Stamford, Conn., 64, $25.200
72. Tyson Foods Inc., Springdale, Ark., 72, $24.549
73. Wachovia Corp., Charlotte, N.C., 70, $24.474
74. Goldman Sachs Group Inc., New York, 75, $23.623
75. Duke Energy, Charlotte, N.C., 118, $23.483
76. Honeywell International Inc., Morristown, N.J., 78, $23.103
77. Caterpillar Inc., Peoria, Ill., 85, $22.763
78. Best Buy Co. Inc., Richfield, Minn., 91, $22.673
79. Johnson Controls Inc., Milwaukee, 86, $22.646
80. BellSouth Corp., Atlanta, 77, $22.635
81. Ingram Micro Inc., Santa Ana, Calif., 76, $22.613
82. FedEx Corp., Memphis, 83, $22.487
83. Merck & Co. Inc., Whitehouse Station, N.J., 17, $22.486
84. ConAgra Foods Inc. Omaha, 50, $22.053
85. HCA Inc, Nashville, 90, $21.808
86. Alcoa Inc., Pittsburgh, 82, $21.728
87. Electronic Data Systems, Plano, Texas, 80, $21.596
88. Bank One Corp., Chicago, 79, $21.454
89. Comcast Corp., Philadelphia, 157, $21.263
90. Massachusetts Mutual Life Insurance Co., Springfield, Mass., 84, $21.076
91. The Coca-Cola Co., Atlanta, 92, $21.044
92. Bristol-Myers Squibb Co., New York, 98, $20.671
93. WellPoint Health Networks Inc., Thousand Oaks, Calif., 103, $20.360
94. Georgia-Pacific Corp., Atlanta, 74, $20.255
95. Weyerhaeuser Co., Federal Way, Wash., 96, $19.873
96. Abbott Laboratories, Abbott Park, Ill., 100, $19.681
97. AutoNation Inc., Fort Lauderdale, 93, $19.381
98. The Williams Cos. Inc., Tulsa, 196, $19.246
99. Supervalu Inc., Eden Prairie, Minn., 81, $19.160
100. Cisco Systems Inc., San Jose, Calif., 95, $18.878

 

[2000flyer]

Again, just trying to make the first step here. Thanks again for any suggestions.

Seeing as how there is a definite competitive edge in corporate hiring right now (guys moving up, crossing over from 121/frax, etc.) you might consider trying to give yourself a different route.

If I were you, I'd seriously consider trying a head hunting firm. Probably one of, if not the best out there is Janice Barden's API, http://www.apiaviation.com/. Check out the website and what she offers.

Unless you're the luckiest guy on earth, sending out hundreds of blind resumes will do three things. 1. Probably end up in the round file. 2. Deplete your bank account. 3. Increase your frustration. I'm certainly not saying your not hirable. You've got excellent credentials. However, as others have said, you have the 121 "stigmatism" attached to you right now. Since the beginning of commercial aviation, nearly every pilot aspired to be an "airline pilot." Thousands have been furloughed over the years and moved to corporate only to return to the airlines when times rebounded. It's an ugly stereotype indeed, but one you'll have to cope with. Don't let it get you down in the least. Keep plugging away and meet as many corporate pilot's as you can.

Simple rule when meeting a chief pilot at an FBO. Do not start the conversation with "Hi, are you hiring?" Get to know them first. Let them get to know you. Stay friendly and do your best to keep in touch. Joe chief pilot may not be hiring today, but down the road he may be and that could be the goose that lays your golden egg!

Get to know operators who might use you on a contract basis (if you're airline will allow you). A part time gig on a Citation might go a long way to a career in corporate aviation.

One last rule of thumb. "It's always easier to look for a job when you have a job!" Keep your chin up and keep making contacts. It will take some time but you'll be rewarded down the road.

Good luck!

2000Flyer

 

[LegacyDriver]

The main thing is just hope you get lucky. Timing is everything in Corporate. The best way to time things right is to keep those resume's going out the door. A buddy of mine is the DO for a big Corporate/Charter firm. The thing he said that keeps people in the short stack is a continuous update of the resume' every month or so. If they don't hear from you for awhile they assume you have been hired elsewhere and put your stuff in the round file.

Persistence, connections, and luck are what it is all about.

I couldn't get into Corporate world until I did the Air Ambulance thing first. I think the "121 Hangover" as I call it hurts a lot of pilots for all the reasons these other folks have mentioned... If you can find a place that hires day-rate co-pilots (I did that, too) that's a start. At least you can say you have some Corporate experience...

 

[Bjetset2]

Corporate

Corporate really is the best kept secret going. I am pursuing SWA, and ONLY SWA, because my Part 91 job is VERY good. I was just turned down by SWA and the year wait to re-apply will not be painful at all. Not going anywhere else.

I would encourage anyone who is unhappy to make the switch. There is a wide variety of Part 91 operators out there so do your due diligence. If you find the right place you won't regret it.

Good luck to all.

 

[mobie]

corp. jobs and 121

I flew 121 for 38 years for a major, the first 30 or so years were great and then everything started going down hill. Retired at 60 with a lost retirement and started looking for a corp. job with no luck, got rid of the 121 stink by going to a 135 operator and now am getting ready to start a real 91 job with a good QOL and pay.

I did keep my hand in 91 flying on he side all of my 121 years and that helped.

121 even with a major is nothing that it once was, a good to great 91 beats it hands down at this time. Will the tide turn? who knows.

Mobie

 

[barbiejet4life?]

Thanks for all the replies!

I am going to a job fair tomorrow in FLA, a two day job fair in Daytona(FREE at ERAU 10-3pm), and another one in Nov. in Atlanta (AIRINC). I went online and found an NBAA convention in Orlando next month as well. Are the NBAA conventions worth a look?

Are there any job posting/pay rate sites for corporate aviation?

Again, thanks for the help. Its definitely given me a new outlook on the whole career.

 

[Flechas]

Try www.pilotpointer.com has jobs of all kinds.

 

[AA717driver]

I've never been to the NBAA (too junior ) but if someone says it might be worthwhile, just go in business casual, start small and have a stack of resumes IN CASE THEY ASK. Don't start shoving resumes at people.

I'd start with the King Air's and work up. Ask for people's opinion on how to get started. Same as you've done here. I believe most people will offer good advice. And, you might even get into the AV Fuel party!

It wouldn't hurt to buy a few hookers for the CP's... TC

 

[Bankangle]

I was really open-minded when I made the switch last year. But it's taken nearly 18 months to get comfortable with the job and all the stuff it entails.

You have to look at this as changing career fields. The 91 job requires such incredible flexibility and the ability handle a wide variety of tasks--it's nothing like 121.

Getting paid what I was as a capt. for a major airline was like stealing from the company. Getting paid what I am now--I'm getting ripped off! TC

Now that is funny