Enroute inspections

[rchcfi]

This is one of those ranting and raving posts. I was wondering if anyone else out there has their POI or PMI come over twice a month for an "enroute". Over the past 4 months, I have had something like 7-8 enroute checks and I found out they are on their way down again this week. I'm really trying to figure out why the need? Everytime I finish "the ride", our POI or PMI says "great" or something to that fact. Nothing is wrong with the operation, so I am starting to think this is SOP. Am I right?

 

[A Squared]

Does he get off the plane and stay somewhere, or does he ride all the way back to base? If he gets off somethere, I'd say that he was just using the enroute checks as an excuse for free transportation. We get that fairly often, an inspector is going to visit some 135 operators in the bush so he shows up at out base and does an "enroute check" to his destination. Once we had a Fed who was investigating an accident at one of our outstations (not out accident) gave us an "enroute check" back to town, obviously only for the free ride.

If your fed is staying on for the entire trip back to base maybe he's bored and he's just getting out of hte office and getting an airplane ride.

Another possibility is that it's the FAA's way of applying a little pressure to your employer, a way of saying "yoo-hoo!, don't forget we're still watching you." You are probably aware that the owner of your company is a, shall we say, somewhat controversial figure, and has very few friends in this world and probably more than a few enemies.

 

[rchcfi]

ASquared,

You're familiar with our "ex" GM I see. Yeah, he pretty much ruined this company like he did with the other, albeit much bigger ones. However, now that we're free of him, his legacy still holds us back. The DOT is almost refusing to re-issue us our 401 certificate just because he was once here. He sure leaves a lasting mark! F&*^in' jack@ss!!!

Back to the issue, our enroutes are out and backs. I think it has something to do with the number of accidents the area had last summer. The POI and PMI come out to fly to one airport to get photos, videos, etc. and go back to the NTSB and DOT to try to do something about it.

While we're at it....Another question. One time our POI came down to do a route check to Airport "A" but it was below VFR. He gave me his cell number to call him when we resumed flying. I was able to get one flight out to Airport "B" and it was full. I didn't call him beacause the flight was to a different airport and was full of revenue pax. On taxiing in, I was met by our POI basically ripping me a new one because I went without him. I told him the circumstances and he said "Well, it is MY decision, not Yours!" "If I'm a must ride, I say if I go or not!" Can they bump revenue pax?

 

[A Squared]

rchcfi,

"You're familiar with our "ex" GM I see."

I didn't realize that he had moved on. Good for you! Maybe he'll stay out of aviation now .... seems unlikely though.

I don't know about bumping fare paying passengers. My first instinct is to say no, they can't displace a fare paying passenger, but I could be wrong. The answer is probably buried in the air carrier inspector's handbook someplace.

 

[rchcfi]

A Squared,

That's what the perception is. Everyone thinks he is still here. He left 1 year ago, but we are still held firmly in his legacy's $hitty grasp.

 

[FN FAL]

Then it's gotta be two things.

Either your POI has got the "queer eye for the straight guy" thing going on, in which case I'd start bringing a video camera with you on your line checks.

Or, he's got some hootchie mamma lined up on the beach, where his ole lady don't know what's going on. Bring the video camera once again, as part time paparazzi could be exciting.

In either case you could attempt to extort him for bucks (which is a felony), and risk winding up getting whacked, or being sent to prison (in which case, getting whacked is still an option).

Or, you could at the very least, try to sue the government. In this case you still risk getting whacked or being sent to prison, once again. Life's not fair, and I didn't make up the rules.

It's up to you man, but if you do get froggy and make that leap, just remember letter carriers don't wear tennis shoes, and the ones that do are usually packing some really good whacking devices.

 

[DCitrus9]

Yes, they can bump paying passengers. Most would choose not to, but there are plenty of a-holes that will. Even so, it's up to him to get his tail to the airport and on the plane if he wants a ride. You are not his secretary , and don't have to call him when it's time to fly. If he wants to go that bad, he can sit and wait like everybody else.

 

[amaineiac]

I was based at an airport with a FSDO and we had feds ride on us all the time.

My record is 3 rides with the same fed in 4 days. He was a nice, low key guy, so we didn't mind too much. When he didn't show on the 5th day we worried something might have happened to him!

 

[JAFI]

121.547 Admission to flight deck.
(too much to post now, you may want to read it sometime)

121.548 Aviation safety inspector's credentials: Admission to pilot's compartment.
Whenever, in performing the duties of conducting an inspection, an inspector of the Federal Aviation Administration presents form FAA 110A, "Aviation Safety Inspector's Credential," to the pilot in command of an aircraft operated by a certificate holder, the inspector must be given free and uninterrupted access to the pilot's compartment of that aircraft.

121.581 Observer's seat: En route inspections.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (c) of thìs section, each certificate holder shall make available a seat on the flight deck of each airplane, used by it in air commerce, for occupancy by the Administrator while conducting en route inspections. The location and equipment of the seat, with respect to its suitability for use in conducting en route inspections, is determined by the Administrator.
(b) In each airplane that has more than one observer's seat, in addition to the seats required for the crew complement for which the airplane was certificated, the forward observer's seat or the observer's seat selected by the Administrator must be made available when complying with paragraph (a) of this section.
(c) For any airplane type certificated before December 20, 1995, for not more than 30 passengers that does not have an observer seat on the flightdeck, the certificate holder must provide a forward passenger seat with headset or speaker for occupancy by the Administrator while conducting en route inspections.

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All Enroute Inspections are approved by a FAA supervisor. They track this very carefully and the GAO has oversight and audits the records. We do travel to the same location time and time again. We need to explain why we have to travel to certain locations to the GAO.

Jump seating is a pain in the (lower) back. I do not know any one who has to jumpseat time and time again use it for fun.

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Before you get too hostle, think about this: Part 25 requires a forward observers seat for enroute inspection to be built into the aircraft. Do you really think the airlines/manufactures would spend the money/time to build a seat if they did not have to? Check airman can and still give route checks from the front seats.
It is an old reg and pilots have used the seat for years to go from work to home. When an Inspector is not using the seat the regs and company policy say who can use it. The observer is a third (or forth) set of eyes and ears in the cockpit. Use the asset.

You may not like this, but that is how it is..........


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25.785 Seats, berths, safety belts, and harnesses.
(k) (1) Each forward observer's seat required by the operating rules must be shown to be suitable for use in conducting the necessary enroute inspection.

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If you wish to flame away it will not change the FAR. I probably have heard the complaint before and there is not much I can do about it.

 

[mar]

Yeah, but...

JAFI--

I'm under the impression (though I can't cite chapter and verse) that a Fed *cannot* bump a revenue passenger.

Neither can a Fed delay a flight or generally interfere with the operation and duties of the crew.

The most pertinent part of your post follows:

<<121.581 (c) For any airplane type certificated before December 20, 1995, for not more than 30 passengers that does not have an observer seat on the flightdeck, the certificate holder must provide a forward passenger seat with headset or speaker for occupancy by the Administrator while conducting en route inspections.>>

My interpretation of that paragraph is simply that a forward passenger seat will be wired for sound so that it may be used by a Fed while conducting an enroute.

It doesn't exactly stipulate "thou shalt bump revenue in deference to the almight Fed" does it?

The bottom line is, the airlines are in business to provide a service to the general public.

The FAA provides oversight in the interest of the general public.

I think sometimes we forget who we're serving.

For the record, here's my token enroute inspection story:

Fed shows up, ceremoniously flashes me her credentials and asks to have a look at the aircraft while we prepare in the office.

I say, "Go ahead, have a look." I have nothing to hide.

We finish up inside. I take my seat in the cockpit. The Fed takes her seat (in a forward passenger seat). Just as the gate agent is escorting passengers across the ramp, the Fed taps me on the shoulder and says, "By the way, I noticed the right engine is leaking oil."

Nice timing.

My response: "We're boarding. Right now. If you like, I'll look at it at the destination."

The point I'm trying to make is: Don't get pushed around. Stay in control of the flight. They provide a service and if your company complains enough about a particular bad apple they can be banned from having to do anything with your company--I've seen it happen.

Fly safe.

 

[rchcfi]

JAFI,

I am curious. When Cessna was marketing the 206 to prospective 135 customers, I think the caption read "five seats to fill." Not "4 seats plus the one up front only for the Administrator".

 

[JAFI]

rchcfi,

Oh, my God! Does this mean Cessna would stretch the truth to sell an airplane? What is the world comming to? (scarcism added)


Well the 206 is not a Part 25 airplane is it?

If you want to become a 135 carrier you must abide by 135 rules. At some point you will be enroute inspected. That is just life in the fast lane.

 

[JAFI]

Mar, I would not wait untill I was seated to inform the crew that there was an oil leak on an engine. I always show problems or ask questions that are safety of flight issues right away. If they are not safety of flight issues I wait until there is a quiet time at cruise.

I read it in the Inspector handbook. I will look up the reference but, please give me a day or so.

I havent bumped a pax in a long time, I need to look that up also.

This issue comes up every couple of years so I have a sheet of paper in my brief case that has all the jump seat regulations on it because I have been challenged by pilots/ticket agents about my "right" to be in the jump seat. I show the regulation to the person and if they do not like that I go call the supervisor, chief pilot, or my boss. Some times it is a training issue, sometimes it is a knowledge issue, sometimes something else. Enroute Inspections are a requirement to be allowed an air carrier certificate. I will get back to you with the hand book reference.

 

[JAFI]

Mar,

The 8700 talked about Part 125 operations but mirrored the 135, 121 operations. This is what I found in the 8400.


Order 8400

Volune 6

SECTION 3. CABIN EN ROUTE INSPECTIONS

147. INITIATION AND PLANNING
A. Initiation. This task is normally scheduled as part of the National Work Program..
B. Planning.
(1) Inspectors conducting cabin en route inspections should make arrangements for the inspection as far in advance of the flight as possible. Inspectors who have not provided the operator with the appropriate advance notice should not insist on a seat if the flight is full. Operators should not attempt to displace the inspector in favor of a passenger when notification has been provided to a FAR Part 135 operator. However, bumping a revenue passenger should only be done when there is no acceptable, alternative means of accomplishing the inspection. Inspectors are expected to exercise sound judgment in these matters.
NOTE
Inspectors will not occupy the F/A jumpseats. Only qualified crewmembers, as determined by the operator, are authorized to occupy these seats.

NOTE
Inspectors conducting a cabin en route inspection on FAR Part 121 operators must never displace a revenue passenger.

(This just means if the cabin is full we conduct a Cockpit Enroute Inspection)


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SECTION 4. COCKPIT EN ROUTE INSPECTIONS

165. GENERAL COCKPIT EN ROUTE INSPECTION PRACTICES AND PROCEDURES.

When boarding the aircraft, an inspector should also avoid unnecessarily impeding passenger flow or interrupting flight attendants during the performance of their duties.


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Now on a 206 you do not conduct a Cabin Inspection. With only 6 seats, what is the point. But the regs (125,135,121) or the Orders (8700, 8400) say nothing about bumping or not bumping a paying pax.

As far as I can see, if there is no jump seat, a forward pax seat becomes a jump seat. The carrier must supply a "Forward Observers Seat for Enroute Inspections".

I hope this answers your question.

JAFI

 

[mar]

I'm not trying to be contrary

JAFI--I'm not copping an attitude or anything but I still don't buy it.

First of all, under 125 ops, the pax aren't *strictly* revenue.

Second, in the order you cited, it makes the distinction between cockpit and cabin enroute inspections.

A cockpit enroute checks pilots, cockpit procedures and cockpit equipment.

A cabin enroute checks flight attendants, cabin procedures and cabin equipment.

The grey area (I admit it) is the aircraft with no proper jumpseat in the cockpit but operated under 121.

Yes, I agree the operator must supply a forward observers seat equipped with a jack for headsets but I still disagree this requirement obligates the airline to bump a customer.

It seems to me that if an inspector wanted to press the issue then the airline could ask for a volunteer to give up his seat and then compensate him in some form (not unlike the equally dastardly over-booking practice).

As often happens this could be another case where diplomacy, good judgement and common courtesy could smooth a lot of ruffled feathers.

Thanks for taking the time to do the research.