Enforcing "Training Contracts"? Evidently, they are enforcible...

[bobbysamd]

Accord and satisfaction

Lets say you just got a job at one of these rinky-dink companies that require you to sign a training contract. It's not your fault that they require you to sign that redicilous contract; heck, you just wanted a job, right?
Now lets say, right after signing that contract, you happen to get hired by FedEx. You're telling me that either you will pay the $15000-$20000 to settle the contract, or turn down FedEx so you can work the remaining years in your contract?

* * * *

I'm personally not going to miss out on a chance of a lifetime to fly for a major airline (FedEx for example) because I'm unwilling to break a contract based on personal moral obligations.

It doesn't have to be as black-and-white as you make it out to be. Perhaps you can work out a deal with the employer so that he/she is happy and you can leave for FedEx. This is known in the law as an accord and satisfaction:

[font=arial, helvetica, swiss]accord and satisfaction
n. an agreement to accept less than is legally due in order to wrap up the matter. Once the accord and satisfaction is made and the amount paid (even though it is less than owed) the debt is wiped out since the new agreement (accord) and payment (the satisfaction) replaces the original obligation. It is often used by creditors as "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" practicality.
See also: novation

[/font]Most anything can be negotiated. Yes, you may need an attorney's help, but better to pay the attorney and be known as an honorable person and not risk burning bridges and being known as a welcher.

Hope that helps a little more.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

And whose to say they havent? I've been on the receiving end of bad contracts my whole career. I've also seen employers break the contract every day.

Ace, I respect you for being a stand up guy and willing to pay back your training contract. However, I'm personally not going to miss out on a chance of a lifetime to fly for a major airline (FedEx for example) because I'm unwilling to break a contract based on personal moral obligations.

Let’s see now, you’ve had a bunch of companies break their promises to you, hmmm, what’s that called, oh yea! it's called karma.



As for this 'job of a lifetime', if it really is, then make good on your word and your obligation to your former employer. When anyone signs a contract of any kind, if they have half a brain they think of all the eventualities. I buy a car, I think of whether I can make the payment if I loose my medical and can't fly anymore. Anyway, the whole point is if the new opportunity comes along, 2 things: 1. Your employer that gave you the upgrade / rating is probably part of the reason you are getting the opportunity. 2. If it is a really great gig, then it will be money well spent to pay your debt back.



It's very simple, even if you don't believe in what just right and wrong.

Ace

 

[jimpilot]

Gotta Wonder

This is only my opinion:
Lets say you just got a job at one of these rinky-dink companies that require you to sign a training contract. It's not your fault that they require you to sign that redicilous contract; heck, you just wanted a job, right?

And just because you signed a contract to have a house built, well he realy didn't want to build it anyhow, he'll just take your money and do something that he doesn't consider redicilous with it. And just because you have a contract for a loan for 5%, well rates have gone up, so why shouldn't they raise you rate, oh and the warranty on your car, well who ever heard of honoring one of those, and ...

A man is only as good as his word. If he will not live up to a training contract because "It's not your fault that they require you to sign that redicilous contract; heck, you just wanted a job, right" then he is the guy you need to watch around your boss because it's not his fault he told less than the truth, because it's redicilous he works for you. And why should he write up that hard landing, after all it's not realy his fault.

Just as soon never fly with a pilot who's word is no good.

 

[Tina Fey's Scar]

It cracks me up when someone signs an agreement fully knowing what it means and then cries like a little baby when they break the agreement and the other party objects.

All of you who have broken training agreements know what you have done. If I was in charge of hiring at an airline and knew you broke one, I'd not hire you and let you know exactly why.

No integrity.

 

[squadronB52]

Folks ....

1. Anyone heard about these contracts enforced in the State of California, An "At Will" state ?

2. Nobody mentioned an Employer going after the pilot, if he fired the pilot for anything.

... for non "serious" job-related wrong doings, infractions, etc., that is ...


Thanks ....

 

[youmustbejoking]

I shouldn't write, but can't resist. Does anybody ever notice these threads are always about "training contracts" not "employment contracts". The sole consideration provided by the employer is the FAR mandated training to the employee. There is no guarantee of compensation nor continued employment. Some employers even have the gumption to require employees to sign training contracts for recurrent training. I don't think much of it.

 

[Kingairrick]

The subject of training contracts came up one day while I was flying with my CP. He said: "I don't get training contracts. I have to send every pilot to school twice a year anyway. It doesn't matter whose name is on the training slot. It all cost about the same. Why should I keep someone here if they want to leave?"

 

[squadronB52]

Dear Fellow Pilots,

Thank you so much for your support, and anyone else that has interest in this important topic, I would greatly appreciate your input too

I am a very hardworking, diligent worker, with high morals and values. I'm also both a positive and fun person to fly with and do off duty activities as well.

I have an amazing and interesting story to share to all those interested, and bot just about training costs ... and will submit that to the groups soon, but not quite yet , for I am taking part in a possible lawsuit offense/defense

Hopefully it will be one that many fellow pilots can think about and really learn from, as well !

All my best, squadronB52

 

[Coool Hand Luke]

Dear Fellow Pilots,

Thank you so much for your support, and anyone else that has interest in this important topic, I would greatly appreciate your input too

I am a very hardworking, diligent worker, with high morals and values. I'm also both a positive and fun person to fly with and do off duty activities as well.

I have an amazing and interesting story to share to all those interested, and bot just about training costs ... and will submit that to the groups soon, but not quite yet , for I am taking part in a possible lawsuit offense/defense

Hopefully it will be one that many fellow pilots can think about and really learn from, as well !

All my best, squadronB52

How soon will you be sharing this information? The suspense is killing me.

 

[Corona]

Dear Fellow Pilots,

Thank you so much for your support, and anyone else that has interest in this important topic, I would greatly appreciate your input too

I am a very hardworking, diligent worker, with high morals and values. I'm also both a positive and fun person to fly with and do off duty activities as well.

I have an amazing and interesting story to share to all those interested, and bot just about training costs ... and will submit that to the groups soon, but not quite yet , for I am taking part in a possible lawsuit offense/defense

Hopefully it will be one that many fellow pilots can think about and really learn from, as well !

All my best, squadronB52

I'm sensing an imminent tale where you are/were trying to weasel out of a training contract. (J/K)

I signed an agreement once; it wasn't for very much, and I didn't plan on leaving the company during the time period.

I'm not going to flame pilots who sign them, nor will I necessarily criticize someone who leaves before the contract is up without paying. However, in retrospect, I think any pilot should READ the contract and certainly have an attorney review and possibly revise it. A contract is by definition an agreement between two or more parties. If someone is shoving some turd contract down your throat and dangling a job as a chaser, it isn't much of an agreement, is it?

Any contract should have poison pills; ie, family emergency, ilnesses, acceptable treatment by the employer (specifically spelling out work duties & pay,time-off, etc). If one of these comes up, or the company weasels, the contract is nullified.

BTW, I had a co-pilot once who did this for another operator; had his attorney re-write the contract. He sent it to the chief pilot with an explanation. Never heard back from them, even though they'd offered him the job.

Hopefully it goes without saying that you should ALWAYS be willing to walk from a job offer.

C

PS: Nice thread resurrection!