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Emirates or CAL?

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timetoquit

Well-known member
Joined
May 27, 2003
Posts
128
Let's say you are single, mid-30s, no debt, no baggage, and got an offer from Emirates & CAL? Which one would you choose?

List the pros and cons of each!
 
Questions
1. Single or married/girlfriend?
2. Like adventure?
3. Want to fly brand new widebodies right off the bat?
4. 3-4 year widebody upgrade suit you?
5. Can you stand the fact that you will be in a not so democratic place?
6. Do you like to mountain bike,ski,fish? Not gonna happen in DXB. Yeah I know about the indoor ice rink pitched at 10 degrees for ski effect.
7. Like Russian women?

Look at Cathay as well for comparison. EK is a great choice I think. Take a shot. We will still be here when you decide to come back.

You will have very cool stories to tell your Grandkids some day. Not slamming CAL at all but give the expat lifestyle a chance. You will hate it for six months then you won't want to leave.
 
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I'll take CO anyday......

EK is not a bad choice, however it does have its problems. I am due to start my upgrade in 1 week and tomorrow will be my last FO sector. Having said that, I have apps on file with CO as well as Netjets and if hired I will be gone in a second.
 
I am with a large overseas carrier with quick upgrades (6 yrs to heavy PIC)relative to the US majors and I can see your conundrum. It comes down to what your gut tells you.

The expat life is not for everyone but anyone I have met who gets a lot out of it seems to be the kind of person who not only accepts diversity but embraces it.

For me the money is better (initially) , the destinations are second to none and your fellow expat can instantly identify with your situation. The friendships and bonds you make with the other guys who are "..all over here together.." are fantastic.

I suspect life at CAL would also be good and this tread is not a "..this one is better than that one.." story. Its quite simply reacting to your inner voice. But if you have any questions as to whether the pprune criticisms of any carrier overseas are justified - take my advice, treat them with some measured scepticism.

Whatever you do trust your judgement and never look back!

Good luck.

Respectfully,

fareview
 
A friend made such a choice earlier this year. He had class dates at both CAL and EK starting within a week of each other. He chose EK. Having lived/ flown in both parts of the world and now flying for CAL, I can attest the choice would be a tough one. DXB is not all that bad. It is certainly the best and only place to be if you're in the Middle East. In fact, I could see chosing DXB to most US airline hub cities.

CAL has hired a lot of pilots since early 2005. There is still plenty more hiring to be done but if age-60 changes hiring will obviously be drastically reduced for a few years. Nonetheless, it just delays the inevitable and movement will once again begin when the bulk of those pilots reaches 65. Both CAL and EK are growing.

Both CAL and EK are quick upgrades. If age-60 changes then EK will have the advantage there but keep in mind being an F/O in the US is not like being an FO overseas. I'm not ripping on EK here. I'm sure their F/Os are highly professional and well-respected but the mentality of some PICs (probably less than 10%) on that side of the world is to dominate their crews. FOs in the US don't put up with such a captain, for the most part. In the Middle East/ Asia, you seem have little choice as it can be more of the norm.
 
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whymeworry? said:
A friend made such a choice earlier this year. He had class dates at both CAL and EK starting within a week of each other. He chose EK. Having lived/ flown in both parts of the world and now flying for CAL, I can attest the choice would be a tough one. DXB is not all that bad. It is certainly the best and only place to be if you're in the Middle East. In fact, I could see chosing DXB to most US airline hub cities.

CAL has hired a lot of pilots since early 2005. There is still plenty more hiring to be done but if age-60 changes hiring will obviously be drastically reduced for a few years. Nonetheless, it just delays the inevitable and movement will once again begin when the bulk of those pilots reaches 65. Both CAL and EK are growing.

Both CAL and EK are quick upgrades. If age-60 changes then EK will have the advantage there but keep in mind being an F/O in the US is not like being an FO overseas. I'm not ripping on EK here. I'm sure their F/Os are highly professional and well-respected but the mentality of some PICs (probably less than 10%) on that side of the world is to dominate their crews. FOs in the US don't put up with such a captain, for the most part. In the Middle East/ Asia, you seem have little choice as it can be more of the norm.
Click to expand...

I agree with most of your comments but EK and CX both have very good CRM compared with most companies. Not so much dominating but a more professional(anal) environment. Most crews at EK or CX are either Canadian, British, or Australian. This brings the culture of their nationality to the plate. Most Brits, and Canadians are more "uptight". Sometimes suprisingly the most
"anal" are the Australians as they are trying to be Brits. But they go overboard. Something about the little brother syndrome.
 
Originally Posted by whymeworry?
A friend made such a choice earlier this year. He had class dates at both CAL and EK starting within a week of each other. He chose EK. Having lived/ flown in both parts of the world and now flying for CAL, I can attest the choice would be a tough one. DXB is not all that bad. It is certainly the best and only place to be if you're in the Middle East. In fact, I could see chosing DXB to most US airline hub cities.

CAL has hired a lot of pilots since early 2005. There is still plenty more hiring to be done but if age-60 changes hiring will obviously be drastically reduced for a few years. Nonetheless, it just delays the inevitable and movement will once again begin when the bulk of those pilots reaches 65. Both CAL and EK are growing.

Both CAL and EK are quick upgrades. If age-60 changes then EK will have the advantage there but keep in mind being an F/O in the US is not like being an FO overseas. I'm not ripping on EK here. I'm sure their F/Os are highly professional and well-respected but the mentality of some PICs (probably less than 10%) on that side of the world is to dominate their crews. FOs in the US don't put up with such a captain, for the most part. In the Middle East/ Asia, you seem have little choice as it can be more of the norm.

You haven't flown for Airtran then.

IAHERJ
 
The best job an airline pilot can hope for is a US legacy carrier. Living in the base is a tremendous plus.

If you were in early twenties i'd say go have fun, make memories for a coulpe of years..
IMHO.
 
EMBpilot said:
The best job an airline pilot can hope for is a US legacy carrier. Living in the base is a tremendous plus.

If you were in early twenties i'd say go have fun, make memories for a coulpe of years..
IMHO.
Click to expand...

I would tend to disagree here.

Having flown both overseas in many parts of the world and here in the US, there are many advantages and disadvantages to both scenarios.

If I weren't already on with a Legacy, I would jump at the right opportunity to fly overseas. There are a lot of positives that a pilot can benefit from while flying overseas, not the least of which is respect. Here in America we have diluted our professional reputation down to a level where we command very little respect. Overseas, a pilot is probably the most respected professional there is.

Probably the only remaining benefit US Major (vs. overseas) pilot left is days off. Here we tend to maximize our productivity to maximize days off. Although ALPA has done a good job of screwing that up with the latest round of concessionary contracts. Of course, working for a US Major you're closer to friends and family.
 
Having spent six months in Dubia I would never live there on a permanent basis. No matter what, it's a middle east country. Once you leave Dubai it's nothing but sand and rocky hills. I guess dune boarding is fun for a while. Swimming in the Persian Gulf is like swimming in a dirty bath tub.

EK may have new aircraft and a cool training center but staying longer than a visit would be tough. The hotels are cool and gold is cheap, but that's it.

Dubai is by far the best, and only worthwhile, city in that part of the world. But it can't come close to the USA.

Good Luck.
 
Ive been at Cal for about 1.5yrs. and have an interview with EK next week. I hear they are pretty tough on guys that are already with a US legacy carrier. can anybody confirm that please. Ill go do my best but i hope EK makes the decision for me, so i wont have to make it. Call me a female organ if you want.
 
EK turned down a friend of mine a couple months ago,
A-300 Capt, B-737 Check Airman.
He wasn't excited about the job, might have showed in the interview?
 
joevollers said:
Have you seen the emirates FA's ?.....if your single,that may be enough to sway you
Click to expand...

Huh??? :confused: Never follow cootchie man.... You can get laid anywhere if you can talk. Please don't let FA's ever be a factor in any aviation decision you make.....;)
 
Gottafly74 said:
Ive been at Cal for about 1.5yrs. and have an interview with EK next week. I hear they are pretty tough on guys that are already with a US legacy carrier. can anybody confirm that please. Ill go do my best but i hope EK makes the decision for me, so i wont have to make it. Call me a female organ if you want.
Click to expand...


You are in CAL and is still not good enough.?
 
Yes I am at CAL and yes it is good enough, but that doesnt mean I need to close all doors. If any mergers occur, I would probably not want to be around for the bloodbath that follows if i dont have to. Thank you for your concern.
 
SuperKooter said:
CAL, best airline in America.

Emirates would be my 2nd choice had I not gone to cal
Click to expand...


And DAL WAS the best 99-01. UAL was the best in the '80s until early '90s. Then there was that 2000 contract that seemed out of place from a competitive perspective.

NWA was one of the most financially sound and low debt airlines before the last (and one of the biggest) LBO's in '86-87. They never fully recovered from that after they chose to lease rather than own their jets.


The only conclusion I can draw without more info is a prediction of CAL's fall with your declaration of their Best status. The best in this industry (from a pay or prestige perspective) have always found a way to go out of business or race toward BK.

How will this best status last?? What do you mean by best anyways??

I consider SWA the best airline from '90 to present. My criteria includes profitability and sound, conservative financial management. The pilots weren't paid the best but they got stock options and profit sharing that made their pay closer to others than it looked. .
 
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SuperKooter = flamebaiter extrordinaire. If he is a CAL pilot the Pope flies for Chataqua.
 
and what happens if oil useage hits its peak and goes down? Then EK will not have the same amount of capital it has. The chance of that happening compared to bad times at CAL are probably less, but its still a chance
 
Go to CAL. EK has no union protection and they can change their rules and policies AT WILL. You will have no protections whatsoever.
 
some might contend that US carriers have unions and no protection! Management can seem to change their rules and policies at will.

I spend alot of time in dubai and abroad and will tell you its alot of fun! Dubai can be a bit clickish, but so can anyplace. But let me tell ya been one place in the states and its pretty much like everywhere else, but if you are open minded and like adventure do the EK thing. New Equipment great destinations good looking FA's and a 100% Tax free income. Housing's included make some money have some fun.

Frankly the pay at CO isn't very good and after taxes ur working very hard for not very much, but hey live the dream! Sometimes you should think outside the box and maybe your life will change.



johnsonrod said:
Go to CAL. EK has no union protection and they can change their rules and policies AT WILL. You will have no protections whatsoever.
Click to expand...
 
Very very very tough call.

You want to roll the dice and bet on the beautiful Russian women living (and ahem, "working") in Dubai, the hot a-s-s Emirates FA's, the Ex-Pat lifestyle, and the stories you'll be able to tell your buddies back home?

Or you want to stick with what you know, and what's comfortable, i.e living in the USA and flying for legit legacy carrier?

I don't honestly know what I'd do.

I had an interview with EK scheduled back around April 2005, and never went. It shocked me to find out they would not assist me in getting to the interview whatsoever. They have direct flights from JFK to DXB, and there were plenty of seats available on the flight I needed. I emailed back and forth with whats-her-name at EK (its been a while, I forgot her name) about asking her for a space available (ie, free) seat on that flight, or at the very least a discounted ticket. Based on her responses, you would have thought I was asking her for Plutonium. The fact that they would not put on one of their own flights, at no additional cost to them, and the fact that this very concept was completely alien to them, turned me off to the point I didn't even go to the interview.
 
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