Embraer 170/175/190/195 Fuel Burn

[Skyboss]

Just got some fuel numbers from Embraer:

500 Mile Sector:

170: 3,200 pph (Reported)
175: 3,370 pph (Est)
190: 4,330 pph (Est)
195: 4,440 pph (Est)

1,000 Mile Sector:

170: 2,950 (Reported)
175: 3,115 (Est)
190: 4,000 (Est)
195: 4,090 (Est)

(These are block hour averages, not cruise burn numbers)


E-190 testing is showing better than expected burn. 40 gallons less than B-717 per hour and 80 less than A-318 on a typical route. 195 will equal the 717 and clearly beat the 318. E-170 burn is matching CRJ700 even at greater weight.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Just got some fuel numbers from Embraer:

500 Mile Sector:

170: 3,200 pph (Reported)
175: 3,370 pph (Est)
190: 4,330 pph (Est)
195: 4,440 pph (Est)

1,000 Mile Sector:

170: 2,950 (Reported)
175: 3,115 (Est)
190: 4,000 (Est)
195: 4,090 (Est)

(These are block hour averages, not cruise burn numbers)


E-190 testing is showing better than expected burn. 40 gallons less than B-717 per hour and 80 less than A-318 on a typical route. 195 will equal the 717 and clearly beat the 318. E-170 burn is matching CRJ700 even at greater weight.

YEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This combined with the slave wages paid to fly it will make it a real money maker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Like I said before. ..Pathetic, just pathetic..

 

[701EV]

Boy those numbers look to good to be true.
701EV

 

[Skyboss]

Well, a CRJ700 supposedly burns 2,994 on average for a 500 mile sector. The 170/175 should burn a bit more based on the specific fuel consumption and thrust rating, they did say during the developement that they got an additional 3-5% out of the wing. **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** good numbers though. I have a 717 packet that shows the 195 with 2.5% more burn than the 717, but all things change in the development process I suppose.Looks like the E series strength is in the longer range (+750nm). Perhaps this is why US bought both. CRJ for short hops, E series for longer hops.

 

[flyingitalian]

Interesting. Had a 737-700 up at 410 last month, with the blended wing we burned 1980 a side. Last week had a fully loaded -700 at 370 buring 2180 a side.

 

[Skyboss]

Yeah, the NG's do **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** well. Winglets? I hear they climb like a rocket with them. (The E-Jet numbers are total, not per side)


Next step... A 737 replacement that burns say....1,900 a side avg, per hour??? (8% reduction).

 

[lowecur]

Perhaps this is why US bought both. CRJ for short hops, E series for longer hops.

Actually, the maintenance costs are 20% less than the CRJ 700, thus giving it a significant CASM advantage. Add those economics to the ergonomic advantage, and it's no contest.

 

[bvt1151]

Actually, the maintenance costs are 20% less than the CRJ 700, thus giving it a significant CASM advantage. Add those economics to the ergonomic advantage, and it's no contest.

Ha! Embraer thinks the Mx costs will be lower. Trust me, they will be much higher for the first year or so until they work the bugs out. The EMB is a new airframe, which brings along with it a sort of "discovery" period, while the CR7 was a derivitive of the successful CRJ series. Add with that the largely superior useful life of the Bombardier series, and I'm starting to see why the CR7 is still being ordered.

 

[lowecur]

Ha! Embraer thinks the Mx costs will be lower. Sooo, are you saying they are lying? Trust me, they will be much higher for the first year or so until they work the bugs out. Sounds reasonable, but the warranty should cover any cost over-runs that are not projected. The EMB is a new airframe, which brings along with it a sort of "discovery" period, while the CR7 was a derivitive of the successful CRJ series. How's the 900 doing? Add with that the largely superior useful life of the Bombardier series (please show me some numbers where the 200 series has a superior useful life) and I'm starting to see why the CR7 is still being ordered. Care to tic off some recent large orders where both the 170 and the 700 were competing? I think most of the orders were options where the commonality deal is important. Even Air Canada told them to go pound salt.

.....

 

[WSurf]

Who cares about any of this. These airplanes have come along and ruined the industry. Who cares what the dag-gum thing burns. I don't care if your Comair, Piedmont, Mid Atlantic, Conex, PSA, etc. etc. The industry has gone to crap, and I put a majority of the blame on these 70 seat and above Jets... So lets find something else to talk about besides fuel burn.. How about we talk about what the FO makes flying that Taco Rocket... Grrrrrrrrrr, lol, I need a capt. and coke. You aviation geeks are killing me with your fuel burns....

 

[TWA Dude]

These airplanes have come along and ruined the industry.

How can an airplane ruin the industry? Personally I blame the internet for ruining the industry, where pax can now shop and choose the airline that charges $5 less per ticket.

 

[boxjockey]

Personally I blame the internet for ruining the industry, where pax can now shop and choose the airline that charges $5 less per ticket

BINGO!!

box

 

[WSurf]

If your willing to fly an airplane for bs wages.... well its the airplane and the person flying it of course. Bottom line is people will fly for nothing. Look at what JO said at Mesa..... Quote "I pay my pilots too much money, why? because each month I can fill up a new hire class". There was a time that it didn't matter what Regional pilots made, because you got your time and you moved on to a bigger airplane to make the big bucks. Now that bigger airplane is a freaking 70 RJ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't say it isn't so Joe... ow these Aircraft closed the gap between mainline and regionals and it will hurt all of us in the long run.

What we need is a pilot shortage, look at all the pay for training companies that used to be around. All the sudden companies are hiring, people are nit picky about where to go, and finally all the PFT is gone.

And I said I blame a large part of the problem on the aircraft and pay, not all....
Protect the profession.... or soon it won't even be a profession

Captain Coke, gotta gooooo!!!

 

[lowecur]

What we need is a pilot shortage. There is a serious shortage of nurses. Ooops, lousy hours and bs pay....Big shortage of actuaries....Ooops, too boring and you need too much education. It always comes back to Home Depot.

......

 

[bvt1151]

lowcur,

The EMB170 has an advantage over the CR7 of a common typed fleet with larger airframes, and superior range. The CR7 has the obvious advantage of a proven technology.
I do believe the oldest 50-seat CRJ has been certified for over 100,000 flight hours. From what I remember, the ERJ is certified for less than half of that.

The 90-seat CRJ lacks any range to offset the increased unit cost. The shorter stagelengths will hurt that airplane on paper and it will not rival the 190. The smaller cabin also disuades other airlines.

I'm not getting into a CRJ-EMB pi$$ing match. I'm just trying to point out that even with the older technology, the CR7 is an incredibly economic airplane. It ran at an industry average of 6.1 casm which was cheaper industry-wide than the 737-500 by two cents. 2004Q1 numbers show that the MD-80 operated at 5.7 casm. The CR7 is very much in line with low-cost numbers, even with the slightly higher crew costs from Horizon, Comair, and ASA.

The opportunity for fleet commonality with the EMB series is tremendous. Don't forget, however, the benefits of fleet commonality from the CRJ series. If aircraft are already operating CRJ equipment it is most likely the benefits from fleet commonality already outweigh technological benefits of the EMB's.

 

[FarginDooshbahg]

And Embraer builds the cheapest, flimsiest throw away aircraft on the planet. You will NEVER again catch me on one of these POS things.

 

[WSurf]

Lowecur,

are you on crack.... RN's make way, way, way more money then regional pilots...... Hospital are recruiting them left and right. Paying for the apartments, give there kids scholarships.... and the pay is 60k and higher... do ur research first bro...

 

[boxjockey]

And Embraer builds the cheapest, flimsiest throw away aircraft on the planet.

Has a higher dispatchability % than a CRJ.

box

 

[bvt1151]

Has a higher dispatchability % than a CRJ.

box

Not Mx related. Poor schedule and high utilization factors.

Average Mx cost per seat mile on CRJ-200: 1.0 casm
Average Mx cost per seat mile on EMB-145: 2.0 casm

for grins:
CRJ-700: .7 casm (more seats)
D328 JET: 3.0 casm
A320: .7 casm
737-800: .5 casm

Source: Eclat consulting

 

[lowecur]

Lowecur,

are you on crack....Yes. RN's make way, way, way more money then regional pilots......Let's see, that's 3 ways. Sooo is that 3 times more than an average regional FO. Hospital are recruiting them left and right. Yes, from Canada, Europe, South America, India, Pakistan, and the former Soviet Union. Why?, because the stress and hours burn these people out in 5 years or less. Most quit because they are tired of doing physicians work for 35% of their pay. Paying for the apartments, give there kids scholarships.... and the pay is 60k and higher...Maybe at a Hospital in a Major Met area, and if you specialize. Try going to Canton, Ohio and see how much they pay RN's right out of school. Or try the recent graduates from proprietary nursing schools at many hospitals in small and mid sized communities. They start them at $40-45K per year, with a guaranteed commitment of 5 years. Your looking at an average work week of 60 hrs or more. Fun, huh?
do ur research first bro...

The bottom line is an experienced specialty nurse will probably bring home close to what an experienced rj CA of 12 years. Tell me which job you would prefer.