Effect of current economy?

[FalconPilot69]

How is NJA, CS, Flops, Flex, XOJet and Avantair being effected by the economy? Are you guys seeing any furloughs or reductions in flying?

 

[brokeflyer]

no, in fact our business has picked up a lot.

 

[jonjuan]

no, in fact our business has picked up a lot.

no, in fact ALL fractional growth has slowed a bit relative to 2007. Fractional owner flying has dropped off about 10% from the previous year.

 

[BE40Driver]

Flops going down

FLOPS fired 70 pilots on May 23,2008.

 

[RNObased]

no, in fact ALL fractional growth has slowed a bit relative to 2007. .

Again with the bad info, what is it with you?? NJA sales are up slightly over '07 while YOU are correct for once, flying is down slightly.

 

[GSXR600]

So sales are up but flying is down mmmm....I dont get it so folks are buying shares but not using them???

In todays economy that's kind of hard to believe!!!

 

[imacdog]

Not really. The rich aren't getting any poorer. With airline service cutbacks we are getting new owners, and if corporations downsize their flight departments we get new owners. The good news is, even if they aren't flying as much (and I've heard the figure 1% less this year), we are still getting management fees that pay our salaries.

 

[PigPile]

FLOPS fired 70 pilots on May 23,2008.

And, I'm not sure how much that had to do with the economy.

 

[dime line]

And, I'm not sure how much that had to do with the economy.

NADA. Only ego on schtfngrs part

 

[ProFracPilot]

We are told at FlOps that hours flown are down year over year, and we've had a RIF. At this point, the 70 pilots involved in the RIF were terminated - NOT furloughed (for now) - and this was done out of seniority. As was previously eluded to, the action of the pilot RIF is a direct result of the ongoing union fight and not any real attempt to balance crewing needs. Scheduling regularly leaves green airplanes sitting on the tarmac and there is a standing request to work overtime. You can try to do the math, but it doesn't add up.

Sales numbers for any of the fractionals only tell one part of the story. If this number is up year over year, you'll get e-mails about it and see press releases spreading the good news. The numbers you WON'T hear about are the contract redemptions. It is very difficult to determine the rate of redemptions year over year at any of the big 4 providers. At FlOps, I believe many of these redemptions are being covered by JetPass and now charter contracts. After all, according to our "leadership" (cough, cough) we're no longer a "Fractional Provider", but a "Private Jet Company". You do listen to the weekly messages, don't you?

Hours under contract, being from owners or card programs, are the real key to the core health of a purely fractional provider. Fractional contracts are locked in and long term; card programs are fully redeemable for unused hours - no long term security. Without knowing the exact ratio I think it is very difficult to determine just how healthy the company is. It becomes a bit more complex trying to determine the true financial health at FlOps because we now have charter and aircraft management in the mix.

Thanks in no small part to the airlines, private jet flying - while it may slow some in the flagging economy - will continue to proliferate.

 

[captain dad]

The FLOPS guys that were fired, were fired and not furloughed. Just happened to be, that most were big union supporters. Qua incidence?! I think not. As far as I have been told by FLOPS guys this had nothing to do with the economy or sales.

For those that don't believe, look at the facts. NJA is putting on a net gain of 46-50 A/C and hiring 400 + pilots this year alone. Monthly classes continue. If sales were lacking, I doubt we would be going full steam ahead.

Time will tell and yes there may be some effect down the road, but history has shown that high end luxury item sales usually lag quite a bit behind a down turn in the economy. It looks to me that this bear market and recession is only thinning out the already endangered middle class. However, that is just my opinion. We shall see.

Continue to Rock On!

 

[SKYLAWYER]

From recent pilot meeting. CS block hours flown through May 2008 within 50 hours of planned. So current owners are using the service. Sales of new shares are down 45%. CS is offering a new product. We have 4 or 5 aircraft now singularly owned. 3 Soveriegns, and 1 XLS. One more Soveriegn in negotiations. One Sovereign, a managed aicraft is going to Australia and back, a 3.5 week trip, later this month. The company and Cessna are really pushing the managed aircraft segment of the business. It is almost like the XO jet model except the aircraft are used as charter backup to the company's fractional and jet card segment rather than straight charter.

How about just publishing a copy of our business plan, and guys complain when mgmt withholds exact numbers. Un fnn real! You notice most NJ guys are professional enough to discuss items already public knowledge such as aircraft orders and pilot hiring plans. When it comes to financial all you see are " slightly up, or slightly down. Or a minor reduction or we show show slightly below/above target" You release information given in a private meeting and all you ensure is the next time this kind of meeting comes around we wont get it again.

Since I hate to complain without offering future suggestions, here is a answer you should reference for the future.

Currently at CS sales are below target, however, the company has diversified its offerings and are pushing forth with some international experimentation. The diversified offerings have left us ahead of budget despite the sluggish sales market. Aircraft utilization has taken a minute hit , however, some of the diversified offerings have proving to be several 100 times more profitable than the company expected. We are currently poised very well for the market, however, we are not going to bury our heads in the sand are constantly evaluating our financials during this time of record high oil prices. We have taken steps to adjust our gas utilization on position legs and APU burn as have several of the other fractionals. With that all said my guess would be that CS is still a very good bet in this industry.

 

[Sparse]

I don't think any huge coperate secrets have been divulged in my post. If you think CS is divulging corperate secrets to it's pilots then you are nuts. If they are advertising it, it is public knowledge. My post was to display that CS is being innovative in it's products and the fractional side of the business is doing well. Sales may be down but what segment of our economy is not suffering sluggish sales?

 

[SpaceBall 1]

I don't think any huge coperate secrets have been divulged in my post. If you think CS is divulging corperate secrets to it's pilots then you are nuts. If they are advertising it, it is public knowledge. My post was to display that CS is being innovative in it's products and the fractional side of the business is doing well. Sales may be down but what segment of our economy is not suffering sluggish sales?

Irregardless.....that infomation came out at a company sponsored meeting for CitationShares pilots only! I don't remember pilots from other companys being invited. Skylawyer is right in saying such information should not be posted. If you read about it in AIN, BCA, Pro Pilot....publish all you want. Otherwise, it is confidential information. Use your head!

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Irregardless.....that infomation came out at a company sponsored meeting for CitationShares pilots only! I don't remember pilots from other companys

Use your head!

Actually, use yours! This is one of the more illiterate posts I've seen as of late, and for the last freaking time....

"irregardless"
is NOT a word... (except, of course, in redneck circles).

I'd be far more worried about the public seeing you as an example of the company, rather than the inane b.s. posted here....

 

[doh]

Actually, use yours! This is one of the more illiterate posts I've seen as of late, and for the last freaking time....

"irregardless"
is NOT a word... (except, of course, in redneck circles).

I'd be far more worried about the public seeing you as an example of the company, rather than the inane b.s. posted here....

An' whut pray tell has u got aginst rednecks? Git r done!:laugh:

 

[brokeflyer]

Actually, use yours! This is one of the more illiterate posts I've seen as of late, and for the last freaking time....

"irregardless"
is NOT a word... (except, of course, in redneck circles).

I'd be far more worried about the public seeing you as an example of the company, rather than the inane b.s. posted here....

lighten up Frances........no one twisted your arm to read it.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

lighten up Frances........no one twisted your arm to read it.

lol
Projecting there buddy? :laugh:

 

[brokeflyer]

no im refering to how your crying about his spelling.