Duty Question??

[swordfish]

We all know the legal to start legal to finish but what about the 16 hours FAA reg. is that a legal to start legal to finish or if you cant complete your last leg within sixteen hours your done? Can you block out with the expectation to get done under sixteen, but get hit with an extensive ground delay, and still go?

What if your deadheading and get hit with a ground delay...guess you have no choice in this matter but to go over 16 hours...captains not going to return to the gate for you...any answers would be helpful.

I believe that if your flight time is two hours than as a flying pilot you have to return to the gate if you aren't wheels up by hour fourteen.

 

[gangdev]

The way I understand it is that if you are at 14.5 hours and your last leg is estimated to finish (block in) in one hour, then you are good to go. However, if you then leave the gate, taxi out, and then have a long taxi delay, ground stop, etc, and you know that you will exceed the 16 hours, then it is back to the gate, no more flying for you.
Let's say that there is no delay on the taxi out and you depart. Any delay in the air that will exceed 16 hours does not require an air return. Just continue to the destination.
As for the Deadhead, that is a good question. My guess is that as long as the flight pushes back on time, you are good to go. I just can't imagine the flight attendant calling up while waiting in a longer-than expected line for take-off to say: "we have a couple of deadheading crew members who are asking if you can return to the gate so they don't time out".....haha!

 

[swordfish]

The way I understand it is that if you are at 14.5 hours and your last leg is estimated to finish (block in) in one hour, then you are good to go. However, if you then leave the gate, taxi out, and then have a long taxi delay, ground stop, etc, and you know that you will exceed the 16 hours, then it is back to the gate, no more flying for you.
Let's say that there is no delay on the taxi out and you depart. Any delay in the air that will exceed 16 hours does not require an air return. Just continue to the destination.
As for the Deadhead, that is a good question. My guess is that as long as the flight pushes back on time, you are good to go. I just can't imagine the flight attendant calling up while waiting in a longer-than expected line for take-off to say: "we have a couple of deadheading crew members who are asking if you can return to the gate so they don't time out".....haha!

That is how I understand it too...but the deadhead is a question because we sat on the ground at dulles and it was obvious that we would have an extended taxi putting the deadheading crewmembers beyond the 16 hours. Suggested the deadheaders head for a hotel but scheduling would have nothing to do with it...the deadheaders ended up with a 16.5 hour duty day and we all wondered if they were in violation....I guess we just say that we had no idea of the long taxi wait...har har

 

[RedGuy]

I fly 135, and under 135 we get a 14 hour duty day. You have to be able to finish your trip with reasonable planning within that 14 hours. However unexpected delays, on the ground or in the air, can basically extend your duty day indefinitely, though I personally put about an 18 hour limit on it. We also can dead head home as long as we want to, after we drop off we're now only regulated by part 91 regs and can fly as much and as long as we want.

 

[avbug]

I fly 135, and under 135 we get a 14 hour duty day.

No, that's a common misconception. You have a 24 hour lookback period with a 10 hour rest requirement, not a 14 hour duty day.

The only exception is if you're a regularly scheduled crewmember with the same duty hours every day, which few operators are.

 

[regionalcap]

That is how I understand it too...but the deadhead is a question because we sat on the ground at dulles and it was obvious that we would have an extended taxi putting the deadheading crewmembers beyond the 16 hours. Suggested the deadheaders head for a hotel but scheduling would have nothing to do with it...the deadheaders ended up with a 16.5 hour duty day and we all wondered if they were in violation....I guess we just say that we had no idea of the long taxi wait...har har

I think that you can go past the 16 hour limit if you are deadheading.\
\

 

[RedGuy]

No, that's a common misconception. You have a 24 hour lookback period with a 10 hour rest requirement, not a 14 hour duty day.

The only exception is if you're a regularly scheduled crewmember with the same duty hours every day, which few operators are.

Yes, I know this, but if you take 10 from 24 you get 14. I was just simply trying to simplify things for someone who may not have as great of knowledge about the subject. For all practical purposes it's a 14 hour duty day, forgoing any unforeseen delays which may extend it.

 

[great cornholio]

I think that you can go past the 16 hour limit if you are deadheading.\
\

We just got a memo that helped explain the whole withlow rest thing. If you are deadheading you have a 16 hr limit. Its exactly the same as if you were flying the flight up front...except for one little diff. If you fly the flight you have to take into account the 15 mins past block in for your duty off time. If you are a dhd then you duty off at the block in time (not 15 after).

When you get close to timing out there are two times you need to know. 1 the time you need to be off of the gate and 2 the time you need to be off of the ground.

To find out the out of the gate time you need to look at your "drop dead time" IE 0200. Take you block time and add 15 mins. I (IE 100 block + 15 mins is 1:15) Now subtract that from your drop dead time...so 0200-1:15 is 12:45 so you have to be out of the gate by 12:45.

To find out what time you must be off you must look at your enroute time (taking into account expected holding etc) and add 15 mins. IE 45 min ete + 15 is 1:00. So you have to be off of the ground by 0100. If you do that then get holding and what not and duty off in over 16 hrs then you are legal. If you take off at 0101 and fly fast and duty off in under 16 hours you are ILLEGAL because you werent off the ground before you were scheduled to time out.

Back to the original point the memo said if you are deadheading and looks like you will not meet those times and will be over 16 hours you have to get the other crew to go back to the gate...of course you could always duty yourself off and then "limo" home.

 

[SSDD]

You're kidding, right? You're deadheading on another airline, there is an unexpected delay, and you're going to ask that crew to get out of line, taxi back to the gate and drop you off?

Not going to happen!!!!!!!!!

 

[acaTerry]

Oh how I love that 15 minute add-on...
It takes longer than that just to get the beef of the plane.