Does England not have survival school?

[JCJ]

P.S. - also remember how Steve Centani and his camera man and that female journalist that was captured all "converted" to Islam and made video statements of how well they were being treated - until they got back to friendly territory and started to tell what they really thought. In a given situation, I think one will normally say whatever keeps them alive as it can all be retracted after release.

"2"

Unless someone here is a former POW, none of us really have much to say about what these guys say in captivity. We need to just STFU until this is resolved. Then we might find out what really happenned.

 

[MSNFlier]

Call that humiliation?

Just food for thought...not taking a position

Call that humiliation?

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]No hoods. No electric shocks. No beatings. These Iranians clearly are a very uncivilised bunch[/FONT] [FONT=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]

Terry Jones
[/FONT][FONT=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]Saturday March 31, 2007
The Guardian

[/FONT] I share the outrage expressed in the British press over the treatment of our naval personnel accused by Iran of illegally entering their waters. It is a disgrace. We would never dream of treating captives like this - allowing them to smoke cigarettes, for example, even though it has been proven that smoking kills. And as for compelling poor servicewoman Faye Turney to wear a black headscarf, and then allowing the picture to be posted around the world - have the Iranians no concept of civilised behaviour? For God's sake, what's wrong with putting a bag over her head? That's what we do with the Muslims we capture: we put bags over their heads, so it's hard to breathe. Then it's perfectly acceptable to take photographs of them and circulate them to the press because the captives can't be recognised and humiliated in the way these unfortunate British service people are.

It is also unacceptable that these British captives should be made to talk on television and say things that they may regret later. If the Iranians put duct tape over their mouths, like we do to our captives, they wouldn't be able to talk at all. Of course they'd probably find it even harder to breathe - especially with a bag over their head - but at least they wouldn't be humiliated.

And what's all this about allowing the captives to write letters home saying they are all right? It's time the Iranians fell into line with the rest of the civilised world: they should allow their captives the privacy of solitary confinement. That's one of the many privileges the US grants to its captives in Guantánamo Bay.

The true mark of a civilised country is that it doesn't rush into charging people whom it has arbitrarily arrested in places it's just invaded. The inmates of Guantánamo, for example, have been enjoying all the privacy they want for almost five years, and the first inmate has only just been charged. What a contrast to the disgraceful Iranian rush to parade their captives before the cameras!

What's more, it is clear that the Iranians are not giving their British prisoners any decent physical exercise. The US military make sure that their Iraqi captives enjoy PT. This takes the form of exciting "stress positions", which the captives are expected to hold for hours on end so as to improve their stomach and calf muscles. A common exercise is where they are made to stand on the balls of their feet and then squat so that their thighs are parallel to the ground. This creates intense pain and, finally, muscle failure. It's all good healthy fun and has the bonus that the captives will confess to anything to get out of it.

And this brings me to my final point. It is clear from her TV appearance that servicewoman Turney has been put under pressure. The newspapers have persuaded behavioural psychologists to examine the footage and they all conclude that she is "unhappy and stressed".

What is so appalling is the underhand way in which the Iranians have got her "unhappy and stressed". She shows no signs of electrocution or burn marks and there are no signs of beating on her face. This is unacceptable. If captives are to be put under duress, such as by forcing them into compromising sexual positions, or having electric shocks to their genitals, they should be photographed, as they were in Abu Ghraib. The photographs should then be circulated around the civilised world so that everyone can see exactly what has been going on.

As Stephen Glover pointed out in the Daily Mail, perhaps it would not be right to bomb Iran in retaliation for the humiliation of our servicemen, but clearly the Iranian people must be made to suffer - whether by beefing up sanctions, as the Mail suggests, or simply by getting President Bush to hurry up and invade, as he intends to anyway, and bring democracy and western values to the country, as he has in Iraq.

· Terry Jones is a film director, actor and Python
www.terry-jones.net

 

[LeonPhelps]

MSN...you are kidding me right? I mean, I know you said that you weren't taking a position, just "food for thought". Well, while we are handing out food for thought...let's nibble on this one: The author of that article is preposterous to think that sailors of the Royal British Navy, under the flag of a member nation of the united nations in sovereign waters should even be compared to terrorists who blow up innocent women and children both in the US and abroad...YGBSM! You think terrorists who target innocent civilians should be garnered the same treatment of those serving honorably within their nations military? Again...run along and just allow yourself to be manipulated by a press whose disdain for all things American shows no bounds, when trying to compare British sailors to terrorists. Do you actually think that this article is clever or something because maybe it was partially well written? Whatever....

Now, back to my favorite boxth of mexthican wine!

 

[Col Reb]

Terry Jones is a film director, actor and Python

Maybe Terry Jones needs to go to Iraq, hand himself over to Al Qaeda(I think there are a few card carrying members there) and make a film about how Islamic extremists treat hostages. I'm sure that his sheltered, ignorant opinion of world events would change (at least in the final seconds prior to losing his head).

 

[bssthound]

I'm sure that his sheltered, ignorant opinion of world events would change (at least in the final seconds prior to losing his head).

He obviously has an axe to grind; I'm sure Abdullah would be happy to put it to use.

 

[SIG600]

"2"

Unless someone here is a former POW, none of us really have much to say about what these guys say in captivity. We need to just STFU until this is resolved. Then we might find out what really happenned.

Some of us have been through the training and experience of what they are going through, and know fully how things can be spun. It's not so much what they are saying, but how the Iranians are able to spin it. Sometimes you just can't win. We'll only know the truth when this is resolved. Personally I can't believe it's gone on this long.

 

[milplt]

Regarding what MSN posted: I will temper my comments and say you have got to be living in utopia if you think that the conditions that are shown on TV are the conditions that they are being exposed to 24/7. I didn't say that I think they are being physically harmed (because I don't know, yet), but I do know that they would rather be somewhere else. As a former Iranian hostage said, "you can rest assured that the food was taken away as soon as the cameras were turned off".

Wasn't it Jane Fonda who was convinced that the POW's in Vietnam were being treated greatly because she saw it with her own two eyes. Of course, they would never orchestrate a show for public opinion or to win the media war.

 

[PimpJuice]

Doesn't matter what kind of experience anyone has, they haven't done a review of recent history if they think that anything those people do are a direct response to Abu Gharib. Compared to the atrocities commited by the avg terrorist, a leash around the neck is nothing. Ever hear about what the Iraqi's did to captured Iranian forces during the Iraq/Iran war - especially the senior leadership? These people (by that I mean all of the extremists) have been commiting these acts before A.G., before the war in Iraq, etc. They have their motivations, and they are more related to eliminating infidels from the face of the earth (jihad being exactly that - the war with the infidels) than responding to A.G. Iran's motivations on the other hand are singularly related to winning the PR war in the US and Britain, and trying to turn public opinion in those two countries even more towards a rapid withdrawl of forces since they have their operatives trying to win that region over (importing/allowing free movement of insurgents, importing sniper rifles, importing explosives, etc.). A little one up against a superpower during this nuclear showdown doesn't hurt, either. While I am certainly not a proponent of what happened in A.G., I by no means think that we are where we are with our Middle East relations because of that. Read the accounts of the hostages held for 444 days in Iran and see how many times they were forced to endure mock executions, etc. - I think that we will find that the 15 Brits would probably rather have a leash put on and have their photo snapped rather than endure what they are currently enduring. We'll know whether this is a true statement only after they are all released.

P.S. - also remember how Steve Centani and his camera man and that female journalist that was captured all "converted" to Islam and made video statements of how well they were being treated - until they got back to friendly territory and started to tell what they really thought. In a given situation, I think one will normally say whatever keeps them alive as it can all be retracted after release.

No, you don't say exactly what would keep you alive. You remember, before you start playing ping pong, wearing suits, accepting gifts from the enemey, stuffing your face with shwarmas, pointing to maps, smoking, all on camera, that you're a fricking soldier for your country, not some p.r. puppet for the enemy. This is common sense. There were no signs of torture on these people. Remember what Medal of Honor winner Adm. Stockdale did before that put him in front of a camera? He disfigured his face. Now these guys didn't need to go that far but they also could of toned it down a bit.

 

[PimpJuice]

Regarding what MSN posted: I will temper my comments and say you have got to be living in utopia if you think that the conditions that are shown on TV are the conditions that they are being exposed to 24/7. I didn't say that I think they are being physically harmed (because I don't know, yet), but I do know that they would rather be somewhere else. As a former Iranian hostage said, "you can rest assured that the food was taken away as soon as the cameras were turned off".

Wasn't it Jane Fonda who was convinced that the POW's in Vietnam were being treated greatly because she saw it with her own two eyes. Of course, they would never orchestrate a show for public opinion or to win the media war.

No kidding? Of course they would rather be somewhere else. It doesn't mean you would say anything or do anything to be there. Do you think Sen McCain wanted to be somewhere else after three years as a POW in Hanoi getting the crap beaten out of him everyday? Guess, they offered to let him out early. He stayed another three years to keep the faith with his fellow brothers! That's how you behave in these situations. We can see through this bull on tv but I'm sure it's spun quite favorably in the Middle East on Al Jazeera towards the Iranians.

 

[GoingHot]

Just food for thought...not taking a position

Posting that Anti-America BS. Yes Sir, you ARE taking a position. However, I fully support your right to side with the Terroist.