Do senior Delta pilots support RJDC ?

[9rj9]

United and US Air will eventually have leaner contracts, thats a fact that any reasonable person would agree with. How will Delta compete without taking the same kind of labor cost reduction ?
Well folks its already happening, the cheap labor is ASA and Comair. As long as they continue to grow, the mainline pay is supported by the WO at the cost of junior mainline jobs. Do you think these senior pilots want to take a pay cut so Delta can compete ? I'd say most senior Delta pilots see the WO as a huge benefit to them, their higher pay is supported by those willing to work for much less. The more flying that is transfered the lower the seat mile costs and Delta as a whole can compete with anyone. Why do you think they just uped how much the WO can fly ? Did they even have a vote ? No. The senior guys wanted to protect their pay right or wrong. The MEC just took care of business, quickly and quitely. They may publically say one thing but I don't think they lose much sleep over 2000 junior guys on the street as long as their pay that they rightfully earned and were promised stays just where it is.
While they wouldn't support RJDC to take ALPAs money in a lawsuit, I'd say they like the battle thats going on.
Now before I get my beating, I didn't say that the senior mainline guys want to see guys out on the street, but you have to admit they don't want to end up in United's shoes.

 

[csmith]

United and US Air will eventually have leaner contracts, thats a fact that any reasonable person would agree with. How will Delta compete without taking the same kind of labor cost reduction ?
Well folks its already happening, the cheap labor is ASA and Comair. As long as they continue to grow, the mainline pay is supported by the WO at the cost of junior mainline jobs. Do you think these senior pilots want to take a pay cut so Delta can compete ? I'd say most senior Delta pilots see the WO as a huge benefit to them, their higher pay is supported by those willing to work for much less. The more flying that is transfered the lower the seat mile costs and Delta as a whole can compete with anyone. Why do you think they just uped how much the WO can fly ? Did they even have a vote ? No. The senior guys wanted to protect their pay right or wrong. The MEC just took care of business, quickly and quitely. They may publically say one thing but I don't think they lose much sleep over 2000 junior guys on the street as long as their pay that they rightfully earned and were promised stays just where it is.
While they wouldn't support RJDC to take ALPAs money in a lawsuit, I'd say they like the battle thats going on.
Now before I get my beating, I didn't say that the senior mainline guys want to see guys out on the street, but you have to admit they don't want to end up in United's shoes.

No beatings, but you are wrong. I would guess that 65-70% of Delta pilots don't even know what the letters R J D C stand for. The MEC had its reasons for taking care of business. I don't happen to agree with the lack of membership ratification, but that is the system. The meat of the agreement wasn't understood by many of the Delta pilots for quite a while, so don't feel bad for not understanding it either.

Good luck in "taking all of our flying"

C

--more and more people everyday are seeing the true agenda of the RJDC

 

[9rj9]

from the cheap seats

I don't agree or support the RJDC, and the transfer of flying will end. My point was the cheap labor at ASA and Comair provide the cost cutting Delta needs to survive with its current labor costs. Its economics, you have to somehow have your average seat mile cost close to your competitors. The only way to lower it close to the "Southwests" of the world is to transfer flying to cheaper labor. The RJDC should spend its energy on how the industry takes advantage of regional and junior mainline pilots supporting high mainline pay.
I guess if I was a senior Delta pilot I would feel differently, funny how that works.

 

[skydiverdriver]

I think senior Delta pilots do support the rjdc's mission, if not supporting them in kind. I think when they win, it will help ALL Delta pilots.

I think it's funny though, that so many people want to say what the rjdc "should" be working on. They are a grass-roots organization that was formed for a specific purpose. If you think a group "should" be working on something else, then you should form the group and start working on it.

 

[csmith]

Re: from the cheap seats

Its economics, you have to somehow have your average seat mile cost close to your competitors. The only way to lower it close to the "Southwests" of the world is to transfer flying to cheaper labor.

Not true. Not even close to true.

 

[csmith]

I think senior Delta pilots do support the rjdc's mission, if not supporting them in kind. I think when they win, it will help ALL Delta pilots.

I think it's funny though, that so many people want to say what the rjdc "should" be working on. They are a grass-roots organization that was formed for a specific purpose. If you think a group "should" be working on something else, then you should form the group and start working on it.

What makes you have the "pulse" of the senior Delta pilots?

 

[9rj9]

well...

My Dad's one.

 

[snowback]

What distinguishes a "senior Delta pilot"? Widebody Captain? 20 years seniority? Any Captain? Someone with gray hair? Senior in category?

CSmith is right, it doesn't matter how junior or senior a Delta pilot is, most have no idea what the RJDC is and those who have heard of it just kind of chuckle about it. Most guys just complain about speed restrictions in and out of CVG.

It's funny how pilots speculate on what another groups is thinking or feeling. I can't even speculate on what Delta pilots think. I only work with a small group of 767 captains at about the 1000-3000 seniority number, 3 or 4 times per month. Some things I do know...NO pilot I've worked with wants one pilot on the street. Some guys are insanely concerned with their final average earnings, while most have planned and are comfortable. Almost no one trusts management and everyone will take a free USA Today if offered or found left lying around.

As far as being senior or junior and feelings about pay, I for one would be happy to talk with management about ideas to bring furloughed pilots back to mainline. As far as I know, they haven't offered though. Anyway, it can also be almost guaranteed that any concession package to lower pilot costs offered by the company will not include the return of out of work Delta employees.

9RJ9, I'm happy your father is a Delta pilot. It's a great job with a great percentage of super people to work with. I just hope your father isn't one of the greenslipping, screw the junior guys, I'll be darned if they cut MY pay 3% kind of Captains (which more than likely, he isn't because they are a minority).

 

[9rj9]

Here was my point

The real point was to show how the regionals are helping the entire Delta system to stay competitive. Instead I only hear we are stealing jobs. Hey, I just work here.
You're right, I have no idea how any other pilot feels. I was just pointing out how things are different to each of us. The RJDC wants everyone to get out of their way, the junior regional guy wants growth and to one day move up, the furloughed guy wants to go back to work, and the senior mainline guy wants Delta to survive. I'm sure my Dad doesn't want to see anyone out of work, but he also wants his retirement in tact. and so do I.

 

[~~~^~~~]

9RJ9:

The RJ's do not generate the revenue, or profits, to sustain a disfunctional mainline business model. Delta's core business, is Delta mainline. At ASA 85% of our passengers fly on a mainline jet during their journey.

All the stuff management writes about allowing RJ's to preserve and complete a feeder route structure are true. Cost wise, the "cheap labor" does not nearly make up for the "expensive seat miles" an RJ produces.

Most of the senior Delta pilots I know feel that ALPA has a problem representing the various parties performing Delta system flying. The feel that a cooperative approach would be better than what we have now and they feel ALPA National has failed to provide leadership.

ALPA's books, Flying the Line I and II reflect much of what the elder Statesmen of our industry have seen. Their experience lead to ALPA's merger and fragmentation policy which was written by their representatives when they were our age and all full of pi$$ and vinegar. They realize that a union is only strong when it brings pilots together and are disappointed that the RJDC is necessary.

Generally, the other pilot who wrote that most senior pilots are concerned about other issues is correct. From their vantage point, most will say that the ASA and Comair pilots got screwed by the "radicals" at the 2000 BOD. Most pilots have seen litigation against ALPA several times in their career. It is not unusual for ALPA to get sued. What is different about this case is the number of Plaintiffs. The issues are similar to the fights ALPA has seen every time there has been a radical runaway MEC that National has been unwilling, or afraid, to assert control over.

History repeats itself, the senior guys have seen it before and are generally sympathetic from what I have heard.

Regards,
~~~^~~~