Do I want to fly Part 135?

[speedwings]

I've been lucky enough to keep my Part 91 flying job after 9/11 and my company has recently informed me that I am going to training for 135 flying. Everyone I have spoken with in the past has told me horror stories about 135... Working to death, on call 24/7, absolutely no planning for family time, etc. I don't think I have a choice in the matter (unless I want to start mixing paint at the hardware store) but I was wondering what to expect. Good stories, bad stories, advice, etc would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance for the reply!

 

[trainerjet]

Everyone I have spoken with in the past has told me horror stories about 135... Working to death, on call 24/7, absolutely no planning for family time, etc.

How is this different from Part 91 flying?

 

[501261]

Speedwings,

You probably don't have much choice in the matter unless you have another flying job in the oven. Just take it as a positive; you will get to learn flying under a different set of rules for different people. This will help you in the long run. Just about every professional pilot has done some 135 flying at some point. Ya, it sucks, but learn from it, it will help you realize why some planes do the things that they do (i.e. wait 30 minutes for an IFR clearance, when they could just depart VFR on a beautiful VMC day, or why they can't go into airports without weather reporting).

Might want to start looking for something else too, if your company needs to create charter revenue to justify owning a jet that is not a good thing. As a general rule (not including tax benefits or other reasons) the revenue that charter brings in, is going to be spend on the increased cost of operation and maintenance; in essence becoming a wash, so if your company can't afford an airplane without charter revenue it also won't be able to afford one with the charter revenue.

Deftone, what do you mean lower takeoff min? The lowest possible Takeoff mins are under 91! There are none, you can takeoff 0/0 under 91!

Trainerjet, I guarantee you that my 91 job has better work conditions than any 121 job!

 

[cvsfly]

Actually, you can get treated a lot worse flying 91 than 135. There are no days off or duty time restrictions on Part 91 flying.

Your company is probably going 135 so they can get the perks like lower take off minimums, alternate mins, and so on.

What perks are you talking about? 135 is more restrictive than 91. The big headaches to 135 is the paper work and paying attention to the regs that can get you busted. Has your company just started 135 or have they had the certificate for awhile? If they just announced they are going to persue 135 it may take awhile to get the certificate. How many aircraft are there? How many pilots? If they are a small outfit and hope to make money with 135, I would be looking elsewhere for job in the near future (get the 135 training and checking experience) - they won't make money 135 if they are just 1 or 2 aircraft just starting up.

 

[Rick1128]

A prime reason for many corporate aircraft to be under 135 is taxes. There are many tax advantages to the aircraft owner to be under Part 135. And that is Federal taxes. Then there are state, county and local property taxes to consider. Also throw in that Part 135 aircraft were cleared to fly after 9/11 a couple of days before Part 91 aircraft. So there are many financial benefits. As for costs, most corporate flight departments run close or higher paperwork levels than 135. FSI and Simuflite both do full service contracts which allow two training events a year. So the only real difference in costs is usually insurance.

 

[501261]

I don't see anywhere in 91 that says you can't exceed 14 hours duty time, or that you have to have 10 hours rest between.

There's also nothing in the FAR's that says you're not allowed to fly into a mountain. A lot of quality corporate operators use 135 rules as a bare minimum for there operation, but yes you are right there is nothing to prevent you from flying 18 hours straight under 91.

well actually, alternate minimums are 600 and 2 for 91 and 400 and 1 for 135. Not that there’s such a difference there..

Be careful now, if that is your "final answer" on 135.293a1 oral I think you would have just failed your checkride. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the correct answer for alternate minimums "what the OPSPECS allow for a given airport, which might be as low as 400/1." ....Just giving Speedwings an example of the fun stuff he will get to deal with.

Is that common to have 400 and 1? We only had the usual 600/2 or 800/2 for alternate mins, but we were authorized 600RVR Takeoffs.

 

[NJA Capt]

well actually, alternate minimums are 600 and 2 for 91 and 400 and 1 for 135. not that theres such a difference there.

You might want to read that OPS spec again. It doesn't say 400' ceiling. It says ADD 400' to the authorized CAT I HAT. And ADD 1sm to the authorized CAT I landing vis. These apply to alternate airports with at least one operational nav facility....

 

[banned username 2]

I've been lucky enough to keep my Part 91 flying job after 9/11 and my company has recently informed me that I am going to training for 135 flying. Everyone I have spoken with in the past has told me horror stories about 135... Working to death, on call 24/7, absolutely no planning for family time, etc. I don't think I have a choice in the matter (unless I want to start mixing paint at the hardware store) but I was wondering what to expect. Good stories, bad stories, advice, etc would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance for the reply!

It really depends on how they handle this... It sounds like they are putting the aircraft on someones 135 Certificate to try and get more utilization out of it....

I have to agree with 501261 about the practicality of needing the aircraft on 135... Unless it is used a lot, the costs outweight the gains...

As far as wanting to fly 135? Well unless you have a better job lined up and wiating, the correct answer for that is "Yes, I do want to fly 135" because flying 135 beats the he!! out of being unemployed...

Take a close look at your companies situation, if it seems like they really can't afford the aircraft... start looking for a new job... it is often times easier to find a new job when you are currently working...

Good luck to you!

 

[speedwings]

Thanks for the input guys! It looks like this will go through. I think my company is trying to clean up some loose ends and utilize an airplane that has not been as busy as it used to be. Oh well, we'll see.

Keep the blue over the brown!

Speedwings

 

[Ty Webb]

Answer:

It depends. The term "135" can mean anything from a stripped-down LRJet flying checks to a Falcon 900 on its way across the pond . . . .

I flew for a 91 company that put our Westwind on the certificate of a large Part 135 operator (first Business Jet Solutions, and, later, TAG AViation). I liked most things about it, including:

1) Went from Simuflite/FSI training once per year to twice per year

2) More standardization and training

3) More restrictive work rules

4) More verifiable flight time and training (I wanted to end up at an airline, which I did).

5) After 3 years as a 135 pilot, you could become a 135 CP if necessary

6) On a large 135 company's certificate, you could find a better position open, and have a leg up on the competition, since you are already on the same certificate

7) Some airlines will let 135 pilots jumpseat (AirTran and ASA, for starters)

8) I negotiated extra pay for 135 flight hours, and for 135 overnights, so I actually made an additional $3-5,000 per year.

The negatives:

1) Charter flights are usually the first and last time you'll see a customer, so it was more stressfull- trying to guess if they would be early or late, arrive with a gazillion bags or not, whether the itinerary was accurate or had changed without your knowlege, etc., definitely more stressful than dealing with your established passengers.

2) We had to do an annual Line Check with our FSDO, since our 135 certificate holder did not have a Check Airman for the "Bagel Bomber".

3) Extra time away from home.

Overall, though, the 135 training was helpful when I got to a 121 carrier.

Good Luck!