Destination Alternates Under 121?

[dueguard1]

Need a little insight as to when 121 ops are need a destination alternate.......................My first source tells me it's anytime a 121 carrier departs under IFR..............My other source says none is required if +/- 1 Hour of your arrival Ceilings must be 2000 or greater with 3 miles vis......................Trying to get interview ready w/ this one guys.

 

[Workin'Stiff]

Need a little insight as to when 121 ops are need a destination alternate.......................My first source tells me it's anytime a 121 carrier departs under IFR..............My other source says none is required if +/- 1 Hour of your arrival Ceilings must be 2000 or greater with 3 miles vis......................Trying to get interview ready w/ this one guys.

The second instance is correct. Part 121 still needs to abide by the traditional Part 91 requirements regarding a destination alternate. There are other circumstances when you need an additional alternate due to an operational aspect called Exemption 3585. However, you probably will NOT get into that during an interview.

I'm sure you will have several people pipe up on this issue. But that's my two cents.

-W

 

[propsarebest]

JUST USE THE GOOD OLE 1-2-3 RULE

 

[JetPilot_Mike]

Your first source doesn't know squat.

 

[atldc9]

The alternate requirements for 121 domestic carriers are found in 121.619. The requirements are the same as 91.169, but it is a 121 reg. The 1-2-3- rule still applies.

§ 121.619 Alternate airport for destination: IFR or over-the-top: Domestic operations.

(a) No person may dispatch an airplane under IFR or over-the-top unless he lists at least one alternate airport for each destination airport in the dispatch release. When the weather conditions forecast for the destination and first alternate airport are marginal at least one additional alternate must be designated. However, no alternate airport is required if for at least 1 hour before and 1 hour after the estimated time of arrival at the destination airport the appropriate weather reports or forecasts, or any combination of them, indicate—

(1) The ceiling will be at least 2,000 feet above the airport elevation; and

(2) Visibility will be at least 3 miles.

(b) For the purposes of paragraph (a) of this section, the weather conditions at the alternate airport must meet the requirements of §121.625.

(c) No person may dispatch a flight unless he lists each required alternate airport in the dispatch release.

[Doc. No. 6258, 29 FR 19222, Dec. 31, 1964, as amended by Amdt. 121–159, 45 FR 41594, June 19, 1980]

 

[dispatchguy]

Your first source WAS correct in that a destination alternate is required for 121 operations if operated under SUPPLEMENTAL rules; however, for domestic 121 operations, the 1-2-3 rule applies

 

[acaTerry]

Your first source doesn't know squat.

Really? Then please enlighten all of us who have been doing it that way for years.

 

[NEDude]

An alternate is required on the release under the following conditions (at least at my company):

1,2,3 rule

60/70 rule - The airport of intended landing must have an open runway in which the aircraft can land within 60% of the available runway. If not an alternate must be listed in which the aircraft can land within 70% of the available runway.

International operations

Takeoff alternate - If the weather at the departure airport is below the PICs landing minimums, a takeoff alternate must be listed that is within one hour flight time on one engine in still air.

Any supplimental operations.

 

[strega7]

Wait, aren't both people correct? 121.619 says "No person may dispatch an airplane under IFR or over-the-top unless he lists at least one alternate airport for each destination airport in the dispatch release." You always have an alternate listed for an IFR flight. UNLESS the weather meets the 1-2-3 rule then do don't have to list one. It's written to requrie an alternate and then gives you an out if the weather is "good".

So depending on how an interviewer words the question, both people are correct.

 

[JetPilot_Mike]

Really? Then please enlighten all of us who have been doing it that way for years.

"My first source tells me it's anytime a 121 carrier departs under IFR"


Hmm, so if it's 008 OVC at your departure airport you need an alternate to depart? Don't we always depart under IFR? I haven't flown to many VFR flights 121. I always get a laugh when someone says, "CHQ 6235, IFR to east bum f$%^...." Really, you're going IFR today? (Not bashing CHQ, some tools at all airlines say that.)

If it's less than landing mins at departure you do need a takeoff alternate, but that isn't what he was asking/stating. He was asking when you need a destination alt, Part 121. I guess I did assume that he wasn't talking Supplemental.

Good day.

 

[Cardinal]

1) 1hr, 2000, 3sm Rule
2) No Part 97 Insturment Approach Procedure Available
3) 60%/70% Landing Performance
4) Offline Charters (at least for us)
5) Mountainous Airports (ASE etc, that don't trigger 1,2,3 rule even with Wx below MDA)
6) Driftdown, e.g; lose an engine and limp down a valley to a handy alternate.
7) Takeoff Alternate, if departure weather below landing mins.

 

[jumppilot]

Really? Then please enlighten all of us who have been doing it that way for years.

What's up with that comment? You fly 121?

I flew 4 legs today, didn't have an alternate.

 

[acaTerry]

Ah forget it, I half-read the post. Disregard, as they say. Sorry.

 

[skippy767]

Cardinal you hit it on the nose.
Looks like you received that list from Lakes? Is that where you are at?

If so don't forget anytime 3585 is used then you would use it also

 

[jumppilot]

Ah forget it, I half-read the post. Disregard, as they say. Sorry.

No worries! After 4 legs and an early wakeup I'm so tired I could...well, sleep for 12 hours!

 

[JetPilot_Mike]

Ah forget it, I half-read the post. Disregard, as they say. Sorry.

You're disregarded. No worries.

 

[405]

3585

What do pilots think about Exemption 3585?

 

[Skaff]

What do pilots think about Exemption 3585?

I think its a great exemption. One of my favorite exemptions available.

 

[JetPilot_Mike]

What do pilots think about Exemption 3585?

I love it. I especially love it every 12 months when I get to talk about it during my recurrent checkride oral!

 

[405]

3585

Yeah, I love it too.

 

[Skaff]

Yeah, I love it too. Explain it to me. Most pilots have no idea how to apply it.

I'm not like most people here that like to write long winded posts, but...
If you fly for a company that has exemption 3585, look in your ops specs for details. If you don't fly for a company that has exemption 3585, don't worry about it. They will teach you during basic indoc after you get hired.

 

[propsarebest]

3585 KICKS @$$. IT'S THE ONLY WAY TO GET INTO FAT IN THE WINTER!!! AND EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT FAT IS WHERE ITS AT!!!

 

[Wasted]

3585 is the best thing since sliced bread.

 

[Well-hung Start]

I use the 30/40/50 rule......

Within 30 minutes of arrival at the layover, I shall have a 40-proof liquor added at least 50% with a good mixer. Thence......

No alternate required!