DELTA TA-Position Paper for a Yes Vote.

[daviator]

http://dalforums.alpa.org/Portals/3/activeforums_Attach/TA_Point_Paper.pdf

Sorry, I couldn't link it better. Also, the author is not a union rep but a line pilot who has done his own analysis. Enjoy!

 

[jetflier]

R ead
O nly
N o

 

[aeolian]

http://dalforums.alpa.org/Portals/3/activeforums_Attach/TA_Point_Paper.pdf

Sorry, I couldn't link it better. Also, the author is not a union rep but a line pilot who has done his own analysis. Enjoy!

That is analysis for pilots who:
A) Think.
B) Read it in its entirety with a mind that is 1) sober, 2) open and 3) rational.

It is valuable to both DAL pilots and all others. (USAPA pilots in particular should benefit.) We don't get this kind of progress without the wisdom which comes from deep understanding of and experience from involvement with multiple pilot groups. Only a national union possesses such.

Well done daviator.

Aeolian

 

[Skippy]

So if there is a furlough, which 6 seats will be removed? The first class? Riiiight

 

[waveflyer]

I'm positive there was a position paper in the 90's when the first jet went off the property as well....
"why waste negotiating capital....."

You guys sign of on this and you'll see outsourcing be just as rampant- just asks replaced by larger RJs

 

[fam62c]

I'm positive there was a position paper in the 90's when the first jet went off the property as well....
"why waste negotiating capital....."

You guys sign of on this and you'll see outsourcing be just as rampant- just asks replaced by larger RJs

You are right Wave, the genie got out of the bottle long ago and it's not going to get put back here. The best hope is that as retirements pick up and the majors drain the regionals of their pilots the small airlines simply find it impossible to staff their operations well enough to provide reliable service to their networks. I believe this is the one thing that may force better pay, working conditions and hopefully combined seniority lists or actually taking small jet flying in house. The reality is that captains and probably 75% of FO's (as well all the other employees in the company) at majors are not willing to work for less to get smaller planes on the property at a workable cost structure.

I don't think it would be any different at SW. If managment offered growth, promotions, pay and other incentives along with an assurance that no existing employees would be harmed in exchange for the right to operate some 76 seaters under subcontract I think the SW folks would jump on it. It's very hard to turn down improvements (and almost impossible to give up some of what you already have) to prevent a situation that you don't believe will have any bearing on your career path personally. That's just the way that it is, don't be to hard on the DAL guys for accepting something that the majority of the SW guys (or pretty much any pilots group) would accept if placed in the same position. Greed is a big part of the airline pilot psyche.

 

[RJ Bum]

You are right Wave, the genie got out of the bottle long ago and it's not going to get put back here. The best hope is that as retirements pick up and the majors drain the regionals of their pilots the small airlines simply find it impossible to staff their operations well enough to provide reliable service to their networks. I believe this is the one thing that may force better pay, working conditions and hopefully combined seniority lists or actually taking small jet flying in house. The reality is that captains and probably 75% of FO's (as well all the other employees in the company) at majors are not willing to work for less to get smaller planes on the property at a workable cost structure.

I don't think it would be any different at SW. If managment offered growth, promotions, pay and other incentives along with an assurance that no existing employees would be harmed in exchange for the right to operate some 76 seaters under subcontract I think the SW folks would jump on it. It's very hard to turn down improvements (and almost impossible to give up some of what you already have) to prevent a situation that you don't believe will have any bearing on your career path personally. That's just the way that it is, don't be to hard on the DAL guys for accepting something that the majority of the SW guys (or pretty much any pilots group) would accept if placed in the same position. Greed is a big part of the airline pilot psyche.

^^^ Great post! Sums up how pilots should take some responsibility for destroying this profession. Maybe, just maybe DAL and UniCal can change history.....

Jeremy Bentham: "It is the greatest good to the greatest number of people which is the measure of right and wrong."

 

[waveflyer]

The difference is fam, we have 20+ years of RJ outsourcing experience to teach us better.
I actually don't think SWA guys would go for it, as evidenced by their contract- and if swapa did, I would be every bit as harsh with them. And conversely, as critical as I've been, you guys turn this down and I'll be DALPAs biggest cheerleader. You go back and get a -900 on the property and you'll hear so much praise.
6 airlines fam.

 

[waveflyer]

You are correct. We are currently at the max 255 and the only way to get more 76 seaters is to park the 70 seaters as to never exceed the 255. Currently there is 102 70's and 153 76 seaters. If this TA passes those 102 70 seaters will be grandfathered in and 70 more 76 seaters will be allowed.

This is from the Delta TA on scope where I asked what current scope limits were-

Can anyone dispute this?

If not, this position paper doesn't just attempt to muddy the waters on scope, leaving out crucial information, but it's outright misleading.

The gains in scope this TA provides does not come close to the damage it does in solidifying the outsourcing of -900's as the competitive normal.

 

[1st Rate]

I am voting YES as well!!