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Delta reaches deal with pilots

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Leroy Smith

The Masochist
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Posts
178
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After looking at this and the rest of the problem with profession, I'm betting the airlines have lobbyists crawling all over the place to keep the age 60 rule in place.
 
What a surprise...another concession...why don't the Delta pilots just accept an annual reduction of their pay at 3% per year until everyone's working for free and be done with it? These strike threats leading to concessions are worse than watching a soap opera.
 
Flying Ninja said:
What a surprise...another concession...why don't the Delta pilots just accept an annual reduction of their pay at 3% per year until everyone's working for free and be done with it? These strike threats leading to concessions are worse than watching a soap opera.

Have you seen the TA? How do you know the Delta pilots are taking another concession? Going to have to wait about one week for specifics.
 
Flying Ninja said:
What a surprise...another concession...why don't the Delta pilots just accept an annual reduction of their pay at 3% per year until everyone's working for free and be done with it? These strike threats leading to concessions are worse than watching a soap opera.

Easy big fella.....Its just a TA, it has yet to be even seen, let alone passed! Why don't we just wait and see before all the slamming begins!
737
 
Scope is going to be Great in this agreement. DALPA got all DAL flying except 50 seats and below. Anything above that, DAL pilots fly for a minimum of MD 88 rates. We even tried to get the DCI guys to take concessions.


PAY YOUR DUES.
 
Flying Ninja said:
What a surprise...another concession...why don't the Delta pilots just accept an annual reduction of their pay at 3% per year until everyone's working for free and be done with it? These strike threats leading to concessions are worse than watching a soap opera.

This guy doesn't even fly for an airline but he's an expert.

Learn before you speak.
 
And your plan "B" was?

Flying Ninja said:
What a surprise...another concession...why don't the Delta pilots just accept an annual reduction of their pay at 3% per year until everyone's working for free and be done with it? These strike threats leading to concessions are worse than watching a soap opera.

They played the only hand they had as well as they possibly could.

Will be interesting to see how the scope shakes out though.
 
DwayneWorthless said:
Scope is going to be Great in this agreement. DALPA got all DAL flying except 50 seats and below. Anything above that, DAL pilots fly for a minimum of MD 88 rates. We even tried to get the DCI guys to take concessions.


PAY YOUR DUES.

If only that were the case.
 
Severance plan for Delta execs approved
Bankrupt No. 3 airline says it needs severance plan to keep senior managers; union says it stirs rank-and-file anger and bigger problems.
By Chris Isidore, CNNMoney.com senior writer
February 23, 2006: 10:04 AM EST

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - A bankruptcy court Wednesday allowed Delta Air Lines Inc. to implement a severance plan for its senior managers, overruling objections by the troubled airline's pilots.
Delta Air Lines and its pilots union had clashed over the company's plan to pay severance to its top officers and executives at the same time the airline is looking to cut wages and pension benefits for its workers.
http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/22/news/companies/airline_delta_severance/delta_snapshot.gif The nation's No. 3 airline, which filed for bankruptcy court protection in September, said it wants to introduce severance packages, which could cost it up to $14.3 million, to help reduce the attrition rate among its senior managers, which had risen eight-fold in the last two years.
But the Air Line Pilots Association, the only union at Delta, argued this is the wrong time for Delta (Research) to be seeking protection for top officers, when it is seeking further concessions from rank and file employees. It argued that the severance for top executives will hurt morale and could make a successful reorganization at the airline more difficult.
Seeking 6 to 12 months of severance
The company argued in court filings that the plan is needed to stem the flood of top executives who have been leaving the airline due to uncertainty. It said unwanted departures among executives reached 11.9 percent of that staff in 2004 and 18.6 percent in 2005 as the airline's financial outlook worsened.
Company officials stressed that Delta is offering the executives a severance plan that only pays those who are laid-off, not retention bonuses that have been controversial at other bankrupt companies. It also said the $14.3 million figure only applies to all the executives losing their jobs, and that a more reasonable estimate would be about a $3 million cost if 20 percent of the covered executives were laid off in a cost-cutting move.
"In the first month of this year, four more of Delta's officers and directors resigned for other opportunities, including Delta's senior vice president-restructuring," said Delta in a filing asking for the program. "With each departure, institutional knowledge is lost, and Delta's remaining officers and directors are left with additional workloads and responsibilities."
The airline also argued that the loss of those officers is costing it money, as it has to pay new hires to its officer ranks signing bonuses averaging $65,000, relocation fees averaging $23,000, and salaries averaging 20 percent above what was being paid to the departed employees.
The airline argued that other employees at Delta have the airline's previous severance guidelines still in place and that only the officers lost protection at the time of the bankruptcy. And it said officers lost as much as 70 percent of their compensation when short and long-term incentive programs were eliminated at the time of the bankruptcy filing.
CEO Gerald Grinstein and Chief Operating Officer Jim Whitehurst have declined to have the severance plan cover them. The plan has the support of the airline's creditors committee. Delta argued in its filing that even if every executive eligible for the program were to be laid off and paid the severance due to them under the program, it would cost less than $15 million, a small fraction of the company's overall liabilities.
Union anger at plan
But the Air Line Pilots Association said this is the wrong time for such a plan. The union, which represents about 6,000 active and 500 furloughed pilots at Delta, held informational picketing at Atlanta Hartsfield Airport last week over the company's threat to use bankruptcy court to void the union's contract and the possibility that the airline will move to dump its pilots' pension plan on the federal government, a move that would cut promised retirement benefits for the pilots.
"(Delta executives) are tone deaf to the effects of implementing a severance program for a select group on the remainder of the workforce," argued the union's filing. "At a time when Delta is proposing deep cuts in pilot wages and benefits, deep resentment and anger over a soft landing program for officers and directors can neither be understated nor should it be ignored.
"Delta is critically dependent on the participation of its pilots for the success of its reorganization," the pilot's filing continued. "The parties' ability to reach a consensual restructuring agreement is already significantly challenged."
The union said that if the court approves the severance plan, it could make it difficult to win rank-and-file ratification of any negotiated concession deal between the airline and the union.
The pilots agreed to have their industry-leading wages cut by nearly one-third in October 2004 in an effort to keep the airline out of bankruptcy, a move that cut Delta's labor costs by about $1 billion annually. But rising fuel prices throughout 2005 finally brought about the September bankruptcy filing in spite of that concession.
The pilots agreed to another interim pay cut of 14 percent last December, but a March 1 deadline looms; If management and the union can not reach an agreement on further cuts, their proposals will be submitted to a neutral panel.
ALPA's unit at Delta has authorized a strike vote, sought a $10 million contingency fund from its international union and set up a strike center in preparation for a possible strike at Delta
 
www. said:
This guy doesn't even fly for an airline but he's an expert.

Learn before you speak.

I never said I was an expert. And I never said I flew for an airline. Any idiot at a news stand with the capacity to recall can see this relationship over and over and over and over...

Airline Wants to Cut Pilot Pay
Pilots Threat to Strike
Pilots Vote to Strike
Deadline Nears
Pilots Conceed
Strike Adverted
Airline Wins

Yeah, you really need to be flying to see this one from the other side of the galaxy. (In my best Napoleon Dynamite voice...) IDIOT!
 
Flying Ninja said:
I never said I was an expert. And I never said I flew for an airline. Any idiot at a news stand with the capacity to recall can see this relationship over and over and over and over...

Airline Wants to Cut Pilot Pay
Pilots Threat to Strike
Pilots Vote to Strike
Deadline Nears
Pilots Conceed
Strike Adverted
Airline Wins

Yeah, you really need to be flying to see this one from the other side of the galaxy. (In my best Napoleon Dynamite voice...) IDIOT!


The details of the TA haven't been released yet......you know what happens when one assumes
 
How long before management starts this all over again? 12 months? 18 months? I mean, why not? They win every time. What do they have to lose? Last time I checked, DAL stock was pretty much worthless so who is management really working for nowadays?
 
Flying Ninja said:
I never said I was an expert. And I never said I flew for an airline. Any idiot at a news stand with the capacity to recall can see this relationship over and over and over and over...

Airline Wants to Cut Pilot Pay
Pilots Threat to Strike
Pilots Vote to Strike
Deadline Nears
Pilots Conceed
Strike Adverted
Airline Wins

Yeah, you really need to be flying to see this one from the other side of the galaxy. (In my best Napoleon Dynamite voice...) IDIOT!

Yea... I have been preaching this to General Lee!!! Yo Lee, looks like my -----------> No, Yes, Yes might just happen!!
 
:rolleyes:You guys need to just SHUT IT until the terms of the TA are put out there! Like 73pilot said, it is a TA but it has NOT been put to the pilot group. That is still the BIG obstacle. Keep your panties on FOLKS!!
 
Tomct said:
:rolleyes:You guys need to just SHUT IT until the terms of the TA are put out there!

Who made you the hall monitor on the Regional board?

Hardcorr said:
No more pay cuts than we've already taken. Some snapbacks in pay with productivity triggers. Post bankruptcy stock. A small number of 76 seaters for DCI. Will come on line with increased productivity. Alpa proposed sick leave changes.
 
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Tomct said:
:rolleyes:You guys need to just SHUT IT until the terms of the TA are put out there! Like 73pilot said, it is a TA but it has NOT been put to the pilot group. That is still the BIG obstacle. Keep your panties on FOLKS!!

Well I can assure that it doesn't include any raises or a signing bonus! I am sure it doesn't include a nice Severance plan!
 
timeoff said:
How long before management starts this all over again? 12 months? 18 months? I mean, why not? They win every time. What do they have to lose? Last time I checked, DAL stock was pretty much worthless so who is management really working for nowadays?

They can't declare bankruptcy every time they want a concession. I think that things will settle down once:

a) an agreement is made, and
b) DAL emerges from bankruptcy protection
 
The time frame might not be as short as 12 or 18 months, but ALL airlines will ask for concessions. It has become part of business. Try to pressure employees into pay and benefit concessions, if the cave you win. If they don't try again later.
 
737 Pylt said:
Easy big fella.....Its just a TA, it has yet to be even seen, let alone passed! Why don't we just wait and see before all the slamming begins!
737


Why should we? Having read some of your more recent posts, it seems it's about all you're good at...........


AF :cool:
 
Hey, General, ready to eat your words? I told you two months ago that y'all would cave.
 
John Pennekamp said:
Hey, General, ready to eat your words? I told you two months ago that y'all would cave.

This demonstrates pure ignorance. Again, the pilots haven't even SEEN the details yet and you say they have caved... What a complete idiot. There has been no vote yet. This is your brain on drugs...
 
John Pennekamp said:
Hey, General, ready to eat your words? I told you two months ago that y'all would cave.

Did we cave? The negotiators will brief the MEC members on TUES, and then they will vote on it. If they vote YES, then it goes to membership. All of the ATL reps told us THURS (the day before the TA) that they would not allow DCI to have larger than 70 seat RJs. We shall see how they vote, but I wouldn't say we have caved, and most of us won't vote for a TA like that.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
General Lee said:
Did we cave? The negotiators will brief the MEC members on TUES, and then they will vote on it. If they vote YES, then it goes to membership. All of the ATL reps told us THURS (the day before the TA) that they would not allow DCI to have larger than 70 seat RJs. We shall see how they vote, but I wouldn't say we have caved, and most of us won't vote for a TA like that.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Do you think the details of the TA will become public Tuesday ??
 
rjcap said:
Do you think the details of the TA will become public Tuesday ??

I think we will get something in writing to review by WED or THURS according to the MEC chair in a memo tonight.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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Yay. They won scope. (And they accepted nearly all of management's original desired paycuts $290/305mil as well as pensions). But hey, another win for the pilots. :confused:
 
taloft said:
Yay. They won scope. (And they accepted nearly all of management's original desired paycuts $290/305mil as well as pensions). But hey, another win for the pilots. :confused:

We don't know what the $280 million included. You are guessing like everyone else. We may have gotten pension credit to cover the difference. We will find out soon, maybe Wed or Thurs.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 

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