Delta Hiring SWA pilots?

[General Lee]

No matter how disgruntled one becomes, it all boils down to how much greener could other pastures be?

To start over at Delta would be close to a $1 million hit in one decade. Just out of curiosity I crunched some numbers. A new hire at Delta starting in the smallest equipment and moving up to the next largest every 2 years, assuming a 6 year upgrade into the smallest equipment then moving up again every 2 years would bring in $1,053,000 in the first 10 years at minimum guarantee. The same 10 years as a Captain at SWA would net $2,021,760 in salary at minimum guarantee. Of course these Delta numbers are completely arbitrary, and could be way off base considering what equipment is flown for how long and when upgrade actually materializes, but I was just trying to shoot for a ballpark number for comparison.

Not to mention you'd be starting over at the bottom on reserve working holidays and weekends all over again instead of building on the current seniority already attained at the current airline. To each his own I guess, but it just seems as it would be so incredibly counter productive. How long would it take to break even monetarily is an impossible question to answer because of all the intangibles, but one would need to be extremely unhappy at the current gig in order to even consider the move. Every individuals has different needs and desires, so go figure.

Howie,

Your numbers are arbitrary because DL will be short pilots through the next decade. Very few get min time, although you can try to drop trips or give them away on a pilot to pilot swap board.

As far as flying weekends or holidays, that won't last long. Some guys are getting lines just off IOE, and the big retirements haven't even started yet, at any of the big 3. At your airline it might be different due to fewer retirements, but not at the big 3. And due to the multiple fleet types, one retirement from the top opens up multiple openings below, resulting in more choices. Plus, at DL the bottom Capt on the latest bid was near 10,000. That's very close to a 2007 hire, and as I stated big retirement numbers haven't started yet. Recent new hires say they were being told in Indoc that they might hold Capt in 4-5 years, and in the meantime you can go fly and see the World on DL's dime.


Some people just want some variety. And, the DC fund retirement isn't bad, especially if you can pour your profit sharing check into it, along with an additional 15% added to it. Not a bad deal. But, he might lose some money overall, that is a fact. Maybe to him it would be worth it.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Ty Webb]

Hey guys and gals, I was not lobbing a bomb so much as I was venting about how atrocious the mood here is at SWA. I have had some serious issues with a chief pilot, training, SWAPA,and really SWA is just not that much fun anymore. Maybe the General is correct. Mix it up a bit and fly different aircraft, bigger or smaller, see different things, and just explore the aviation world for all it's worth.

Reality is I'm starting my 3rd year as a capt and RIGHT NOW no other job matches the income or the flexibility and that is just a fact. Hopefully, that will change and we will see some big contracts out of the other carriers. I'm supporting you guys. Thanks for the intelligent answers and the brainstorming of this thread. It wasn't for naught.

Bake

Good post. It's very hard to walk away from being a left seat line-holder; it would have to be very, very strong to woo me away. The good news is that you are in a great position, and have the ability to make choices as things shake out over time. Enjoy what you're doing while you're doing it, though, that is the key.

Regards,
Ty

 

[xjhawk]

I heard that too. It is believable in this industry landscape. With everyone hiring why would one pay for a type rating to be a permafo?

That higher power racket and paying for types has to stop.

I heard the Airforce types are getting multiple job offers and are factoring in everything from paying for a type to even if hotels are provided during training. So I assume while regional pilots who have been stuck at regionals and would love to go to SWA or anywhere else for that matter, job offers are being given to the cream of the crop who are yes highly trainable but have no airline experience . I am sure these HR's are not realizing that if they offer a job to a regional pilot who has been knocked around for 15 years, they would find a very loyal dog they can beat (but less than they got at the regional) that pilot and they will still be happy. I am sure the HR types are scratching their heads wondering why they are getting no shows...... from Military people. that would not happen if given to a regional pilot.

 

[waveflyer]

This thread is exactly why this place has become a cesspool.
I really need to find a better way to waste my time!

Yes, if only this forum could be all highbrow Scoot 11 type posts.....

You're not going to make me look up any of your gems are you?

 

[SWAdude]

Yes, if your senior to me that would be an excellent idea. Because we all know that basing your decisions on what is happening right this second is the best way to go. Never mind the last 15 years of bad management or furloughs or across the board concessions. Lets just look at right now a company that has come out of bankruptcy shedding all its massive debt and not having to pay its creditors. Low oil prices, high baggage fees. Because this is how it will be forever and ever.:nuts:

I also agree that this is one of the best responses I have seen in a very long time.

This profession will always be a feast or famine line of work. Pilots like shinny new jets.

 

[Little G-Force]

I also agree that this is one of the best responses I have seen in a very long time.

This profession will always be a feast or famine line of work. Pilots like shinny new jets.

I thought pilots liked hooters and a S S but what do I know ? Of course if you're a gay pilot you might get excited looking at the gear handle.

 

[xkuzme1]

I'll bite on this one:
-SW upgrade is 15 years. I could be a captain at delta in 7
- Ellit and trip trade give away are not as flexible as most airlines systems
- 15 days off a month, but with AM/PMs you always hotel on one end = 11 days off
- AF has officially taken all middle management positions. I expect that all those government inefficiencies to follow.
- Culture, 3 years without a contract and just applied for arbitration
- SW pilots don't ever leave the hotel. In 20 years I have never eaten/drank at the hotel so much in my life.
-reserve is worse than my old regional airline.

Now the good
- no regional jets
- no regional jets to commute on. My commute is on SW, not SW express.
- no regional jets
- growth potential... Potential only.
-there are a lot of good guys here.
-fa's and pilot get a long well.
- layovers are ok.
-efficiency schedules

All in all, a good airline with potential for great things. Do you hinge a career on planned retirements or potential for growth.

This is the main factor.

 

[bluesideup1]

I'll bite on this one:
-SW upgrade is 15 years. I could be a captain at delta in 7
- Ellit and trip trade give away are not as flexible as most airlines systems
- 15 days off a month, but with AM/PMs you always hotel on one end = 11 days off
- AF has officially taken all middle management positions. I expect that all those government inefficiencies to follow.
- Culture, 3 years without a contract and just applied for arbitration
- SW pilots don't ever leave the hotel. In 20 years I have never eaten/drank at the hotel so much in my life.
-reserve is worse than my old regional airline.

Now the good
- no regional jets
- no regional jets to commute on. My commute is on SW, not SW express.
- no regional jets
- growth potential... Potential only.
-there are a lot of good guys here.
-fa's and pilot get a long well.
- layovers are ok.
-efficiency schedules

All in all, a good airline with potential for great things. Do you hinge a career on planned retirements or potential for growth.

This is the main factor.

What do you base those upgrade assumptions on? Last I checked right now Captain at SW is 9 years.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

What do you base those upgrade assumptions on? Last I checked right now Captain at SW is 9 years.

That is due to the artificially inflated number of upgrades to satisfy the OSW pilots wish to capture all our captain seats. The majority of the next 600 upgrades, as they occur will be FAT. That could be anywhere from 2 to 5 years depending on growth, or lack thereof.

Another factor is relatively senior f/o's by-passing upgrade so they don't get stuck on the bottom while all the FATs re-upgrade. While those by-pass, it opened many slots for more junior f/o's to upgrade.

So, while you are correct that there may be 9 year captains at WN, you've also got to look at all the factors that contribute that relatively short upgrade time.

 

[waveflyer]

600 upgrades will be complete by 2nd qtr 2016