Delta and their scope!!

[Wiskey Driver]

Abstract In 1984 the Supreme Court ruled that employers can unilaterally break an existing collective bargaining contract upon filing a chapter 11 bankruptcy petition. This ruling changed both the contractual responsibilities of the employer to honor the collective bargaining agreement and the rights that workers have under the National Labor Relations Act. The purpose of this article is to show the conditions under which a Chapter 11 bankruptcy proceeding will lead to the termination of a labor contract. Our results suggest that (a) legal rulings that reduce the costs of bankruptcy will increase the number of contractual dissolutions and (b) a Chapter 11 bankruptcy is more likely to occur when a firm operates in a climate of uncertain expectations.

Key Words bankruptcy - termination of labor contracts - Bildisco -collective bargaining.

So you see as stated in another thread, the Delta contract means very little in BK and can be broken.

Now I realize that many Delta folks don't want to know this but fact of the matter is it's the LAW!!!! Obestar can't help you!!!

WD.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Wiskey,

What is your hangup with the deltoids? Were you a current/previous delta connection pilot who will go to your grave with a chip on your shoulder? Or did you apply in the past and not make it? Or are you just trying to ruffle GLs feathers, or all the above.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Wiskey,

What is your hangup with the deltoids? Were you a current/previous delta connection pilot who will go to your grave with a chip on your shoulder? Or did you apply in the past and not make it? Or are you just trying to ruffle GLs feathers, or all the above.

Having fun, former TSA and AirWis, never applied to Delta so never been interviewed to be turned down, again having fun ruffling the feathers. Mostly messing with the General Lee, BUT I did give you the LAW as it pertains to BK.

WD.

 

[General Lee]

Abstract In 1984 the Supreme Court ruled that employers can unilaterally break an existing collective bargaining contract upon filing a chapter 11 bankruptcy petition. This ruling changed both the contractual responsibilities of the employer to honor the collective bargaining agreement and the rights that workers have under the National Labor Relations Act. The purpose of this article is to show the conditions under which a Chapter 11 bankruptcy proceeding will lead to the termination of a labor contract. Our results suggest that (a) legal rulings that reduce the costs of bankruptcy will increase the number of contractual dissolutions and (b) a Chapter 11 bankruptcy is more likely to occur when a firm operates in a climate of uncertain expectations.

Key Words bankruptcy - termination of labor contracts - Bildisco -collective bargaining.

So you see as stated in another thread, the Delta contract means very little in BK and can be broken.

Now I realize that many Delta folks don't want to know this but fact of the matter is it's the LAW!!!! Obestar can't help you!!!

WD.

Wow, our guys must have TOTALLY missed that case law. I knew we shouldn't have hired "The Hammer" divorce attorney for our BK stuff......

I think Moak knows what he is talking about. Bring it up with the BK judge who approved it.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Noserider76]

Having fun, former TSA and AirWis, never applied to Delta so never been interviewed to be turned down, again having fun ruffling the feathers. Mostly messing with the General Lee, BUT I did give you the LAW as it pertains to BK.

WD.

Dude, this thing is dead. Give it up. Time to move on.

 

[General Lee]

Dude, this thing is dead. Give it up. Time to move on.

Regardless, Bethune just stated he won't recommend marrying two parties that don't fit, and I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't reccommend the USAir offer to our creditor committee. I think it will be shot down there first, and the DOJ second via Oberstar and Drogan, if it gets that far.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[poppi]

Having fun, former TSA and AirWis, never applied to Delta so never been interviewed to be turned down, again having fun ruffling the feathers. Mostly messing with the General Lee, BUT I did give you the LAW as it pertains to BK.

WD.

Having fun ! Are you a complete idiot. Why would anybody go to another board, bash them, when they are already under stress of possibly losing there jobs.
Professionalism at its best. I hope you do not represent the average AW pilot.

 

[General Lee]

Hey WD,

I guess Scotty Kirby, your COO, didn't know about that case law when he talked to the Calyon Securities conference in NYC last December. Maybe you should call him up and tell him:



US Airways Chief Operating Officer J. Scott Kirby told analysts at Calyon Securities' industry conference in New York that the takeover would see Delta's pilot contract through, although he did not elaborate further. (He was looking for WD's phone number, but WD was sleeping at a EWR airport daytime layover after an allnighter from LAS.....)


WD is the new Johnie Cochran!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Noserider76]

Regardless, Bethune just stated he won't recommend marrying two parties that don't fit, and I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't reccommend the USAir offer to our creditor committee. I think it will be shot down there first, and the DOJ second via Oberstar and Drogan, if it gets that far.


Bye Bye--General Lee

I agree. It has an enormous amount of obstacles it would have to navigate to happen and he will factor that into his recommendation. Parker's plan to deal with the regulators is to give them carte blanche on divesting assets. The creditors have to see the value of the combined company sinking like a rock in a desperate attempt to do the deal at any cost.

I think the creditors will opt for the quicker payout from DL. Spring is a historically great time for airline stock and their investment should be well rewarded. They may put some conditions on their support such as finding other suitable deals but, in my opinion, this deal is dead.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Wow, our guys must have TOTALLY missed that case law. I knew we shouldn't have hired "The Hammer" divorce attorney for our BK stuff......

I think Moak knows what he is talking about. Bring it up with the BK judge who approved it.

Bye Bye--General Lee

General,

If you keep posting how am I supposed to catch up to 8000 posts???

Bought and paid for GL bought and paid for!!!

WD

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Dude, this thing is dead. Give it up. Time to move on.

Ok we will see in Feb:laugh:

WD.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Having fun ! Are you a complete idiot. Why would anybody go to another board, bash them, when they are already under stress of possibly losing there jobs.
Professionalism at its best. I hope you do not represent the average AW pilot.

No one is losing their job and you need to check yourself there newbe with regards to posting on this board. I've been around here a long time and they are not being bashed. I posted THE LAW young man so get you sh stright!!!

WD.

 

[FDJ2]

Key Words bankruptcy - termination of labor contracts - Bildisco -collective bargaining.

So you see as stated in another thread, the Delta contract means very little in BK and can be broken.

Now I realize that many Delta folks don't want to know this but fact of the matter is it's the LAW!!!! Obestar can't help you!!!

WD.

It is the LAW. Showing us your true ignorance once again are we Whiskey? Congress changed the bankruptcy laws after the Bildisco decision, in part because of it. Try again.

 

[FDJ2]

I posted THE LAW young man so get you sh stright!!!

WD.

If you're posting Bildisco, you need to get current on the law.

 

[curtaindriver]

WD, you sure are acting like a "Trick Daddy" ha ha ha

CD

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Hey WD,

I guess Scotty Kirby, your COO, didn't know about that case law when he talked to the Calyon Securities conference in NYC last December. Maybe you should call him up and tell him:



US Airways Chief Operating Officer J. Scott Kirby told analysts at Calyon Securities' industry conference in New York that the takeover would see Delta's pilot contract through, although he did not elaborate further. (He was looking for WD's phone number, but WD was sleeping at a EWR airport daytime layover after an allnighter from LAS.....)





Naw bro, I stay out of EWR in the winter. I did notice that phone call but thought it was you calling asking for more advice.

C'mon man don't hate the messenger for bringing you the law just man up and deal with it!! What's gonna happpen is gonna happen without ANY input from you or I. This is the industry pal, you know that going in...

WD

 

[FDJ2]

Perhaps you should learn it before you "bring it".

 

[Wiskey Driver]

It is the LAW. Showing us your true ignorance once again are we Whiskey? Congress changed the bankruptcy laws after the Bildisco decision, in part because of it. Try again.

I know you like to throw insults when your feelings are hurt but you are going to have to face facts that it is you that's ignorant. Get over yourself and stop all this hatred, you're still employed right?? You are still alive and breathing right?? Oh for your reading pleasure I wil give you something a little more up to date since that was the basis of your arguement.

Court Allows Mesaba Airlines To Smash Union Contracts - 10/17/06

By Doug Cunningham
A bankruptcy judge has allowed Mesaba Airlines to destroy its union contracts. Flight attendants represented by the CWA say they will strike if management acts on the court’s order allowing the contracts to be tossed out.




Anything else FDJ2 or are you just going to stand there with your chin on the ground????

WD

 

[PCL_128]

Abstract In 1984 the Supreme Court ruled that employers can unilaterally break an existing collective bargaining contract upon filing a chapter 11 bankruptcy petition. This ruling changed both the contractual responsibilities of the employer to honor the collective bargaining agreement and the rights that workers have under the National Labor Relations Act. The purpose of this article is to show the conditions under which a Chapter 11 bankruptcy proceeding will lead to the termination of a labor contract. Our results suggest that (a) legal rulings that reduce the costs of bankruptcy will increase the number of contractual dissolutions and (b) a Chapter 11 bankruptcy is more likely to occur when a firm operates in a climate of uncertain expectations.

Key Words bankruptcy - termination of labor contracts - Bildisco -collective bargaining.

So you see as stated in another thread, the Delta contract means very little in BK and can be broken.

Now I realize that many Delta folks don't want to know this but fact of the matter is it's the LAW!!!! Obestar can't help you!!!

WD.

Ummm, hate to break it to you, but the Bildisco decision is old law, and congress changed it way back (thanks to lobbying by ALPA). That's what the 1113(c) process is. It replaces the old Bildisco decision practices.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Ummm, hate to break it to you, but the Bildisco decision is old law, and congress changed it way back (thanks to lobbying by ALPA). That's what the 1113(c) process is. It replaces the old Bildisco decision practices.

Hey PCL,

Read the above and tell me how that applies.

thanks

WD.

 

[FDJ2]

Anything else FDJ2 or are you just going to stand there with your chin on the ground????

WD

WD, nice try, quote an atiquated law and then back it up with a court ruling involving a different law. No one ever said a court couldn't allow a carrier to break it's CBAs, it is just that the court case you use, which allows for a company to unilaterally break a union contract ,is no longer applicable and is no longer the law of the land as you assert. Now go back in the corner and continue to chew your toe nails.

 

[PCL_128]

Hey PCL,

Read the above and tell me how that applies.

thanks

WD.

The case involving Mesaba was an 1113(c) filing. That's the section of the bankruptcy code that was created after the bankruptcy fiascoes in the 80s in which the Bildisco decision was made. Congress changed the law and added 1113(c) so that companies would have to go before a judge and receive approval before rejecting a collective bargaining agreement. Under Bildisco precedent, the company could unilaterally impose terms without a judge's approval. Not so anymore. A judge must approve the rejection. Obviously the new law didn't go far enough, and we'll work on fixing that in the coming years with a new congress and possibly a more favorable administration in '08.

Back the PAC!!!!

 

[FDJ2]

Hey PCL,

Read the above and tell me how that applies.

thanks

WD.

The 1113c process was applied, the Bildisco case which allows for unilateral action by the employer does not and is no longer the law of the land as it pertains to CBAs. In your ignorance, you can't differentiate. Employers are no longer allowed to unilaterally break CBAs, particularly post petition CBAs which are assumed by the company and accepted by the courts.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

The case involving Mesaba was an 1113(c) filing. That's the section of the bankruptcy code that was created after the bankruptcy fiascoes in the 80s in which the Bildisco decision was made. Congress changed the law and added 1113(c) so that companies would have to go before a judge and receive approval before rejecting a collective bargaining agreement. Under Bildisco precedent, the company could unilaterally impose terms without a judge's approval. Not so anymore. A judge must approve the rejection. Obviously the new law didn't go far enough, and we'll work on fixing that in the coming years with a new congress and possibly a more favorable administration in '08.

Back the PAC!!!!

PCL,

That's not what I said or if I did I sure as hell didn't mean it that way. I thought I said that the BK courts could terminate contracts.

WD.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

The 1113c process was applied, the Bildisco case which allows for unilateral action by the employer does not and is no longer the law of the land as it pertains to CBAs. In your ignorance, you can't differentiate. Employers are no longer allowed to unilaterally break CBAs, particularly post petition CBAs which are assumed by the company and accepted by the courts.

STOP commenting!! You're so blinded by what you hope won't happen that you just fly off. I said that in BK the company terminate your contract now granted they need court approval to do so and no judge would allow the company to fail as a result of a collective agreement.

Now if I didn't make this point clear to you in before thne my bad but I think you get the picture now...

In the future keep your insults to yourself when posting to me. I didn't insult or call you out of you name and I would thank you to RIK.

WD

 

[737 Pylt]

STOP commenting!! You're so blinded by what you hope won't happen that you just fly off. I said that in BK the company terminate your contract now granted they need court approval to do so and no judge would allow the company to fail as a result of a collective agreement.

Now if I didn't make this point clear to you in before thne my bad but I think you get the picture now...

In the future keep your insults to yourself when posting to me. I didn't insult or call you out of you name and I would thank you to RIK.

WD

WD:
I can appreciate your trying to ruffle our feathers, its all in good fun. But you're turning into that annoying little prick at the bus stop who throws snow balls at oncoming cars, then when a car stops, he runs and hides!
Besides, unless you want GL to continue to respond, please cease and desist!

737

 

[General Lee]

See below, thanks!

 

[General Lee]

Mr. Legally Blonde---Mr Reese Witherspoon (Whisky Driver)

WD,

Well, did the 1113c replace that out dated law? Our BK covenant states no 1113c allowed UNLESS the company (that owns us--DL or other) cannot get DIP financing to get out of BK. Any potential buyer would obviously have financing. So, what do you think now? And, did you take a shower on the day you got a perm for your hair?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

WD:
I can appreciate your trying to ruffle our feathers, its all in good fun. But you're turning into that annoying little prick at the bus stop who throws snow balls at oncoming cars, then when a car stops, he runs and hides!
Besides, unless you want GL to continue to respond, please cease and desist!

737

Hey, I don't mind responding (obviously). I have to get to 10,000 posts somehow, and WD gives me a great opportunity. I enjoy it.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

I said that in BK the company terminate your contract now granted they need court approval to do so and no judge would allow the company to fail as a result of a collective agreement.

No, that is not what you said or how you started this thread. You said:

"Abstract In 1984 the Supreme Court ruled that employers can unilaterally break an existing collective bargaining contract upon filing a chapter 11 bankruptcy petition. This ruling changed both the contractual responsibilities of the employer to honor the collective bargaining agreement and the rights that workers have under the National Labor Relations Act."

"Key Words bankruptcy - termination of labor contracts - Bildisco -collective bargaining."

"So you see as stated in another thread, the Delta contract means very little in BK and can be broken.

Now I realize that many Delta folks don't want to know this but fact of the matter is it's the LAW!!!!"

It appears your story is changing, now that you realize that Bildisco is no longer the law of the land. Your original assertion was that a company can unilaterally reject a contract, that's incorrect, you used the Bildisco decision to support that assertion, which further emphasizes your superficial understanding and knowledge of the bankruptcy process, then you pull an article from the archives of a judges decision to reject a contract which was not based on the Bildisco decision or the law you originally asserted. Wrong on all counts again.