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Delta and Dalpa ordered to negotiate

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General Lee

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 24, 2002
Posts
20,442
AP
Delta, Union Ordered to Start Negotiating
Thursday March 23, 7:15 pm ET
By Marcy Gordon, AP Business Writer Head of Arbitration Panel Orders Delta Air Lines, Pilots Union to Start Negotiating for Agreement
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The head of an arbitration panel on Thursday ordered the management and pilots union at Delta Air Lines Inc. to immediately begin negotiating for an agreement to avoid a collapse of the 77-year-old airline.

In a strikingly impassioned statement at the end of nine days of hearings before the three-person panel, its chairman Richard Bloch chastised both sides and warned them that "time is very much of the essence and failure ... is not an option."
The pilots union has promised to strike if Delta, which is operating under bankruptcy protection, is allowed to void its contract and impose up to $325 million in pay cuts. Company executives say that a strike would spell the demise of the nation's third-largest airline.
"Make no mistake: you both are responsible for this proceeding," Bloch said in the hotel meeting room where officials of Delta and the pilots union, and their attorneys, sat on opposite sides. If the two sides fail to reach accord and the panel is forced to rule on whether Delta can toss out its contract with the pilots, he said, "This will be an abandonment of responsibility that will, and should, haunt all of you."
"This is a shameful exercise by two groups who it appears have bargained successfully in fat times; but in hard times, the talk turns to nuclear options ...," Bloch said. "You need to begin today, tonight ... you need to get down to this privately now."
Each side, he said, "has within its power the ability to destroy this company."
They didn't plan to sit down immediately, but Delta's chief financial officer, Edward Bastian, said he expected negotiations to begin in a day or two.
"We're hoping to be able to get back to the table," Bastian told reporters after the hearing. "I would hope in the next few days we could start."
"We need to get this done. ... But it won't be easy," he said.
The head of Delta's pilots union, Lee Moak, said: "The ball is in the company's court. It takes two parties to negotiate and they haven't negotiated to this point. We'll see if the panel's words can bring them to the table willing to negotiate in good faith."
Unlike a court, the arbitration panel does not have the legal authority to order the two parties to negotiate, but Bloch said they should consider his statement -- agreed upon by the entire panel -- "an interim order of this arbitration panel."
The two sides had signaled earlier a hardening of their positions. Bastian rejected in his testimony Thursday the union's notion that the difference between the two sides' views -- pegged at $165 million -- is marginal and should be overcome.
Delta's troubled relations with its labor unions deepened, meanwhile, as its regional carrier, Comair Inc., planned to go into bankruptcy court Monday to ask a judge to throw out Comair's contract with its flight attendants so it can impose $8.9 million in pay cuts.
"We are in serious trouble as a company," Bastian said. Unable to borrow any more money to cover its mounting losses, without assets to pledge, any "event risk" such as a terrorist incident, spike in fuel prices or outbreak of bird flu could push the airline over the precipice, he warned.
"We're looking in every corner of this company to reduce costs," he testified, insisting that the pilots were not being unfairly singled out for sacrifice. "This battle for Delta's long-term success is going to take every dollar that we can find."
His remarks stood in contrast to Moak's testimony on Wednesday in which he said, "We should be working together. We shouldn't be fighting over a couple hundred million dollars."
Bastian called that "a very significant" amount, given that the airline has only "a razor-thin margin for error."
The company says that its plan for restructuring the airline calls for up to $325 million in long-term pay and benefit reductions for the pilots -- part of $3 billion in projected cost savings. Management has agreed to lower that to $305 million if the pilots union reaches an accord with the company. The union's plan for cost savings is valued at $140 million.
The Teamsters say that the proposed reductions for the Comair flight attendants would mean an average $10,500 loss per worker on an average salary of about $28,000 a year.
Comair, based in Erlanger, Ky., near Cincinnati, says the union representing about 1,000 flight attendants is the only labor group that has not agreed to concessions with the regional airline. Comair says it needs to cut costs by about $70 million overall to remain competitive. Also Thursday, Delta said it will be offering nonstop service from Atlanta to Wilmington, Del., to become the only carrier to offer service to all 50 states. Starting June 29, Delta Connection carrier Atlantic Southeast Airlines will add two daily nonstop flights between Atlanta and Wilmington.




Well, the company said before they WOULD NOT negotiate anymore, and we stated we would strike if the contract was dropped. Looks like we will negotiate. What I love here is that the CFO states he needs $325 million (or about 10%) of the $3 billion needed to restructure from us. I guess he FORGOT we just gave $1 billion a year and we are STILL DOING IT UNTIL 2009. Hello?


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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Maybe a strike will serve everyone better. Delta Pilots can be proud of the fact they went on strike and stood for the sanctity of their careers and lots of capacity will be taken out of the system.
 
snow-back said:
Genral Lee = Lee Moak?

Not in less the General is lying about his background. I worked for a short time with Lee Moak back in the day -- he is a former Marine who had transferred to the Navy reserves to fly F/A-18s out of New Orleans. Can't remember what he flew in the Corps. A good dude.
 
Best of Luck to the Delta Brethren

I read somewhere recently that a witness in the arbitration said that further pilot pay cuts were not needed--Delta was turning the corner.

If your union does decide to strike, then best of luck to you. I for one appreciate the stand you are taking. Management at most major airlines seem to think that their MBAs from prestigious institutions of higher learning and their golden parachutes are worth more than their personal integrity--they don't/wont/can't see that they are the new organized crime families of this century.

This industry is fast becoming the made-mans dockworker union--face it--we do what they want because we like/need the paycheck--they don't even have to send out leg breakers--Citibank, loan/mortgage companies, and Uncle Sam do that for them.

If you and yours do "draw a line in the sand", then I for one, am behind you 100%. Without hope--we are all doomed. Easy for me to say 'cause I don't work for you--but just know our prayers are with you!

Well, I feel better.

'Zilla--Out
 
crudzilla said:
I read somewhere recently that a witness in the arbitration said that further pilot pay cuts were not needed--Delta was turning the corner.

If your union does decide to strike, then best of luck to you. I for one appreciate the stand you are taking. Management at most major airlines seem to think that their MBAs from prestigious institutions of higher learning and their golden parachutes are worth more than their personal integrity--they don't/wont/can't see that they are the new organized crime families of this century.

This industry is fast becoming the made-mans dockworker union--face it--we do what they want because we like/need the paycheck--they don't even have to send out leg breakers--Citibank, loan/mortgage companies, and Uncle Sam do that for them.

If you and yours do "draw a line in the sand", then I for one, am behind you 100%. Without hope--we are all doomed. Easy for me to say 'cause I don't work for you--but just know our prayers are with you!

Well, I feel better.

'Zilla--Out

well said. we've all got some buds there, good luck to you
 
Why can't the pilots just be reasonable... And give up even more money? :rolleyes:

I don't see anyone cutting Bloch's pay and bene's. :mad: TC
 
TheGuppyKiller said:
Delta-RIP

With a name like guppykiller, I really can't wait to come face to face with your sniveling, inexperienced, wet behind the ears little b!tch a$$ in a terminal somewhere...... hope you've marked yourself with a nice big sticker on your brand new shiney bag. Hopefully we can meet up some time reeeeaaallll soooon junior..........
 
General Lee said:
The Teamsters say that the proposed reductions for the Comair flight attendants would mean an average $10,500 loss per worker on an average salary of about $28,000 a year.

What I love here is that the CFO states he needs $325 million (or about 10%) of the $3 billion needed to restructure from us. I guess he FORGOT we just gave $1 billion a year and we are STILL DOING IT UNTIL 2009. Hello?


Bye Bye--General Lee
Those cuts take a flight attendant down to $17,500 a year? Those poor employees - I do not know Comair is going to keep them around.

Lets be realistic here. The pilots will take the cuts because they have the capacity to do so. The Company's back is up against a stone wall.

If the pilots go along with all the political rhetoric coming out of ALPA and strike for the sake of bravado, each of them personally is going to lose a lot. Hasn't this all just been an amazing spectacle to watch?

Just finished the book "Airline without a Captain." Before striking, a Delta pilot would serve himself well to read any of the books on the demise of Eastern and consider where Delta is at. Grinstein is no Lorenzo and the previous rounds of cuts were partially offset by the rapid increase in relative senioirty.

The cuts at Northwest and Delta will effect ALPA National more than they will any one particular Delta or Northwest pilot. All I can say is be sure that you make your decisions in your own best interest.
 
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The MEC will get some sort of TA to the membership just to shift the burden to the membership.

The membership will approve the TA.

Same as every carrier before it.
 
I don't know much about the management team at DAL, but I do know a fair number of the pilots. These are good, honest, hard working people who don't to deserve to be screwed around with. Maybe there's some give and take in the contract. Let's just hope that they don't have their careers sacraficed because a few radicals can't find a common ground.
 
JB Bus Drvr said:
I don't know much about the management team at DAL, but I do know a fair number of the pilots. These are good, honest, hard working people who don't to deserve to be screwed around with. Maybe there's some give and take in the contract. Let's just hope that they don't have their careers sacraficed because a few radicals can't find a common ground.

I agree DAL pilots and FA are good people)know quite a few) but...

DAL mangement team is awful. Just look at their financial results over the past 3 years alone.

DAL management is worse than NWA and even UALs.
 
One way to save the company would be to get the cEO and all the bozo managers to work for F/O pay with snapback pay to their current levels when the company made money. Also instead of a golden parachute, give them an anvil. Delta would be back on track in no time.
 
Networ-King said:
With a name like guppykiller, I really can't wait to come face to face with your sniveling, inexperienced, wet behind the ears little b!tch a$$ in a terminal somewhere...... hope you've marked yourself with a nice big sticker on your brand new shiney bag. Hopefully we can meet up some time reeeeaaallll soooon junior..........

....chill out...and learn to spell...
 
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Networ-King said:
With a name like guppykiller, I really can't wait to come face to face with your sniveling, inexperienced, wet behind the ears little b!tch a$$ in a terminal somewhere...... hope you've marked yourself with a nice big sticker on your brand new shiney bag. Hopefully we can meet up some time reeeeaaallll soooon junior..........

What's this? Another Delta pilot losing it again and threatning physical harm? Maybe you should think about voluntarily giving up your medical for mental rage reasons.
 
blzr said:
One way to save the company would be to get the cEO and all the bozo managers to work for F/O pay with snapback pay to their current levels when the company made money. Also instead of a golden parachute, give them an anvil. Delta would be back on track in no time.

The company will make money as soon as the pilots give in to concessions.
 
Every airline manager is taking notes on this one. Depending how this turns out, "Coming soon to a theater near you". Good luck guys!
 
blzr said:
One way to save the company would be to get the cEO and all the bozo managers to work for F/O pay with snapback pay to their current levels when the company made money. Also instead of a golden parachute, give them an anvil. Delta would be back on track in no time.

Correct me if I am worng, but didn't a situation like that occur with USAirways? Something to the effect that top management wanted to take an early exit with a Golden Parachute, but the bankruptcy judge told them they would get a much smaller figure than they intended? Anyone know what I'm talking about? Anyone?
 
Einstein said:
What's this? Another Delta pilot losing it again and threatning physical harm? Maybe you should think about voluntarily giving up your medical for mental rage reasons.
Funny guy.....

Why don't you check my posts and see how much of a koolaid drinker I really am? I am furloughed from mother d@#$%e, but I couldn't care any less about those greedy whores anymore. Got an email a couple of days ago from another furloughed guy and it said that the average delta pilot makes 157,000 a year. This is only partially true because of all the opentime the pilots have been flying and now its coming back to bite them in their arses in front of blochead himself....... freaking classic.

As for my post? It was directed towards a tool with no experience with SJS.
Don't worry though... Im sure mr. guppykiller has marked himself quite well with his stickers on his brand new bag and he'll get what he deserves.



Spidey,

I cuoldn't gevi a rats arse waht yuo tihnk abuot my spellign.
 
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Networ-King said:
Funny guy.....

Why don't you check my posts and see how much of a koolaid drinker I really am? I am furloughed from mother d@#$%e, but I couldn't care any less about those greedy whores anymore. Got an email a couple of days ago from another furloughed guy and it said that the average delta pilot makes 157,000 a year. This is only partially true because of all the opentime the pilots have been flying and now its coming back to bite them in their arses in front of blochead himself....... freaking classic.

As for my post? It was directed towards a tool with no experience with SJS.
Don't worry though... Im sure mr. guppykiller has marked himself quite well with his stickers on his brand new bag and he'll get what he deserves.

Networ-King:
Don't lose sleep over chuck....I mean Einstein. He's a flame thrower....Looking to stir the pot towards any Air Tran/DL employee. His mom got tag teamed by 2 DL pilots, and he can't seem to get over it.
Always remember...You might be furloughed, but you'll be back flying again, this a'hole however, will always be a jerk!
737
P.S.
dont worryie about splleing!
 
737 Pylt said:
Networ-King:
Don't lose sleep over chuck....I mean Einstein. He's a flame thrower....Looking to stir the pot towards any Air Tran/DL employee. His mom got tag teamed by 2 DL pilots, and he can't seem to get over it.
Always remember...You might be furloughed, but you'll be back flying again, this a'hole however, will always be a jerk!
737
P.S.
dont worryie about splleing!

Great post Mr 737Pylot. You sure told it like the professional we think you are.
P.S.
don't worryie about splleing!

moderator reviewed.
 
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737 Pylt said:
Networ-King:
Don't lose sleep over chuck....I mean Einstein. He's a flame thrower....Looking to stir the pot towards any Air Tran/DL employee. His mom got tag teamed by 2 DL pilots, and he can't seem to get over it.
Always remember...You might be furloughed, but you'll be back flying again, this a'hole however, will always be a jerk!
737
P.S.
dont worryie about splleing!

737pylt....

Yeah... I know how this guys posts always scream flame, but I figured I'd clear the air. The only thing about mother d that tics me off right now is the fact that our wonderful...ahem.... your wonderful backstabbing union keeps calling and emailing the furloughed guys to go walk the picket lines and show our support......LOL.... UNFREAKINGBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for back to flying???? Big brown is treating me just fine and my double breasted uniform is now for sale.

Did I mipsell anythning in thsi psot spidye?
 
Networ-King said:
Funny guy.....

Why don't you check my posts and see how much of a koolaid drinker I really am? I am furloughed from mother d@#$%e, but I couldn't care any less about those greedy whores anymore. Got an email a couple of days ago from another furloughed guy and it said that the average delta pilot makes 157,000 a year. This is only partially true because of all the opentime the pilots have been flying and now its coming back to bite them in their arses in front of blochead himself....... freaking classic.

As for my post? It was directed towards a tool with no experience with SJS.
Don't worry though... Im sure mr. guppykiller has marked himself quite well with his stickers on his brand new bag and he'll get what he deserves.



Spidey,

I cuoldn't gevi a rats arse waht yuo tihnk abuot my spellign.





Last I heard, TheGuppyKiller acutally has a brown 757 and a brown 767 sticker on his brown leather flight bag.
 
Networ-King said:
737pylt....



As for back to flying???? Big brown is treating me just fine and my double breasted uniform is now for sale.

Maybe 737pylt wants it. He is picking up all the overtime he can before it's all gone and he needs another uniform.
 
Networ-King said:
d o u c h e!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually RJDC IS "TheGuppyKiller". Along with Rhoid, IHaveAPension, The Guat, Freight Nazi, TheMissingLink, 410Dude, and a number of other former posters on this board.
 
Could you imagine flying with Einstein. What an idiot.
I assume he is probably mentioned a few times on the Who is the biggest loser you have flown with? forum
 
Bavarian Chef said:
Not in less the General is lying about his background. I worked for a short time with Lee Moak back in the day -- he is a former Marine who had transferred to the Navy reserves to fly F/A-18s out of New Orleans. Can't remember what he flew in the Corps. A good dude.

Lee "Kimo" Moak flew F-4's at Kaneohe Bay with me. He is an exceptional dude!

"General Lee" is not Lee Moak.
 

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