Day Jet

[Clipper77]

Just curious what you corp guys think of Day Jet (www.dayjet.com) and the Eclipse 500. They have 250+ firm orders, with an option for 100 more. I think if they could get rid of the care bear color scheme, it might make it.

 

[kingairyahoo]

I was just mulling this over myself. from a pilot standpoint the schedule would be nice, and coming home every day would be even nicer, but i dont know that 1,000 hours flying one of these things would be taken seriously or not...how much you wanna bet any job worth having will put a weight restriction on their hiring minimus that effectively eliminates the time in these things???

 

[CapnVegetto]

Who here would want to fly an Eclipse around for about probably $40-50K (I'll bet that's all they'll pay, IF that) for the rest of their career?

I personally think that job would suck a$$......like flying airlines, except one quarter of the pay for flying a phone booth.

 

[Senior_Citizen]

Many Eclipse orders are speculatives, you'll see many of these ordered a/c on the market before its delivery, thats occurs with others A/C, as the GL5000, CL300, CJ+, Soverigns, LJ40XR, and the 7X, of course you must to pay for the "forwarded" delivery .

 

[bafanguy]

Along the same lines of this outfit, what's become of Crandall's proposed Pogo Jet idea ?


Is there really enough market for several of these microjet operations ? Perhaps they're counting on being able to generate the need for the service after they've got the service up and running.

 

[Correcting]

DayJet, Pogo and any others that may pop up all fall under the category of "I'll believe it when I see it." It's all great in theory. Can they make it work?? I don't know. So far it's been nothing but talk.

 

[Hung Start]

Just wondering how many insurance carriers are going to allow this thing to go out with 1 pilot. And, if you put two crew I doubt you can carry much of anything any distance. And people that can afford to buy a share of a frax are going to need 2 pilots. Just don't see how it can work.

But what do I know,,,

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Pogo Jet is alive and kicking, and awaiting their first aircraft. I think there are 4 large cos. that are planning to do the on-demand VLJ operation.

Cliff
GRB

 

[bafanguy]

Just wondering how many insurance carriers are going to allow this thing to go out with 1 pilot. And, if you put two crew I doubt you can carry much of anything any distance. And people that can afford to buy a share of a frax are going to need 2 pilots. Just don't see how it can work.

But what do I know,,,

Hung,

From what little tech info I've seen, they will be 2 pilot, Part 135.

 

[AZ Typed]

Just wondering how many insurance carriers are going to allow this thing to go out with 1 pilot. And, if you put two crew I doubt you can carry much of anything any distance. And people that can afford to buy a share of a frax are going to need 2 pilots. Just don't see how it can work.

But what do I know,,,

I met with some proposed operators at an aircraft show recently. While this a/c is single certified - it won't be flown single pilot. First, the insurance guru's won't let it happen. Second, the market is your baron / 421 guys who have never flown glass or turbine - so not only will you need an "SIC" but one that's got some multi-turbine time, too.

It's is SMALL up front (you have to slide the seats back get out). But it's a hell of a concept and I think it'll work for them. I know lots of folks just salivating over the idea of owning their own jet for a cool 1.5 or so. Hell a new baron is over 1M I believe.

It will be interesting...won't it...

 

[Hung Start]

Couldn't agree with you more. It is a hell of a concept. And I would love a shot at owning one. I just don't know how it could work as an air taxi/fractional thing.

Owner flown,, no doubt.

 

[Snakum]

One of the partners of the King Air/Baron operation that let's me tag along and scare the passengers has ordered an Eclipse to replace an aging Baron (his personal plane ... not the one we fly). It is my understanding he expects to fly it single pilot, even though he only has a few hundred hours in a B58, I reckon. I say, more power to the guy. If you can fly a Baron ... how much harder would an Eclipse be? Things move faster, but there'd actually be LESS to do in the microjet, wouldn't there? Fewer lever thingees.

From what little tech info I've seen, they will be 2 pilot, Part 135.

But I know a young CJ2 Captain flying SP on part 135. Why would the Micro be any different under 135? Just curious (I'm new to all this pro stuff)?

Of course ... if they make him get an FO, then that's just another seat with my name all over it. OK, I've changed my mind. I now believe he should have to hire an FO.

Minh
(Future Eclipse First Offer who will probably be harrassed here for logging SIC in it, even after you all insisted it SHOULD be flown with an FO. )

 

[100LL... Again!]

I think it will be a real trade-off as far as ease of use goes.

While there are no windmilling props to deal with, and while the microjets are closer to centerline thrust, a lot will depend on the person's ability to think at the faster speeds. Additionally, higher levels of automation CAN make things easier, BUT they can also turn a low timer into a heads-down 300 knot button-pusher.

Overall, I think the microjets will present a higher level of workload and demand more skill than a Baron.

The things that will probably be easier:

Engine management
Engine-out flight characteristics
Systems management

Things that might be harder:

Thorough understanding of the flight control systems
Dealing with the higher speeds and slipperiness of a jet

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I believe a Baron is now $1.1 mil.

The cheapest jet is $4.1 mil. last I checked.

The Piaggio Avanti is $4.7? mil. I don't think it makes sense to buy the current small jets as the Avanti has better performance and is cheaper to own.

Cliff
GRB

 

[AZ Typed]

I think it will be a real trade-off as far as ease of use goes.

While there are no windmilling props to deal with, and while the microjets are closer to centerline thrust, a lot will depend on the person's ability to think at the faster speeds. Additionally, higher levels of automation CAN make things easier, BUT they can also turn a low timer into a heads-down 300 knot button-pusher.

EXACTLY! Having been on both sides of the fence - slow props to fast jets - it's obvious to me that the SPEED and COMPUTER can send a newbie into the dirt. I couldn't have imagined flying my first jet by myself for the first 500 hours. Hell I'm in the middle of transitioning to another glass jet and I'm lost in that thing half of the time). That may be excessive and expensive for microjets...but it's imparitive that the trainsition pilots get experience with SPEED and COMPUTER flying with SIC/FOs or something. Button pushing is night and day from stick and rudder! This issue will be tackled...do you think they would've built 2 of these things already if they didn't think about this? I can't wait to fly one, that's for sure!!! (for industry+ pay, of course)

 

[AZ Typed]

Hi!

I believe a Baron is now $1.1 mil.

The cheapest jet is $4.1 mil. last I checked.

The Piaggio Avanti is $4.7? mil. I don't think it makes sense to buy the current small jets as the Avanti has better performance and is cheaper to own.

Cliff
GRB

Well, the Safire was $800,000 (out of business though). Eclipse will come in around 1.4M I thought. Not to mention the citations you can pick up for under 4M easy. So leaving your Baron behind isn't that difficult cost wise. Better performance is relative depending on the missions expected. Just think - you could 1/4 share one of these things and have your own jet. Hell - even your upper middle-class can afford that! Sign me up! (just have to get the darn $ part figured out first).