DAL system:something to ponder (staple)

[DDpaysoff]

Instead of cheating other threads here is a new one.
I agree that if I were in Dalpa's shoes I would want job protection more than anything else. I thought you had it, who saw 9-11 coming. It was going to take something like that to happen that nobody could even imagine to furlough your brothers.
However, I think mainline pilots see ASA/CMR as more of a threat than they really are. Your 767 guys get paid pretty good, right. Well, it would take 5 rjs flying from ATL-FLL to meet the demand of 1 767 flight. Consider you have what, 5 or 6 767's a day operating that flight, you can do the math 25-30 rj's to meet that demand. It simply is not cost effective. Our casms are much higher than yours. When (not if), but when this thing turns around they will be pulling airplanes out of the desert faster then they put them in there and I will be flying to places like Huntington, WV again.
For, now we are meeting demand w/ capacity and exploring new markets. SCE,TRI,MLN, places that you probably never heard of but DAL, because of it's industry leading RJ fleet can say, we have the only Jet service to those cities (and many more). We are doing a great job putting people on mainlines A/C.
The solution is probably a staple. If an airline has the ability to operate any type of aircraft in any type of market based on demand it will leave the others behind in earnings. Think about it, just sell the tickets and the month before the flight designate the airplane to meet the demand. Unfortunately,
1. Our mgmt. lives in too much fear in the pilot groups negotiating power that they will not allow this to happen.
2. We have mainline pilots who are more focused on negotiating for people who have not even been hired by DAL yet(ie military buddies) than looking out for thier little brothers.
3. We have a bunch of stubborn old former navajo pilots who were purchased by DAL who are bitter that their growth is now restricted due to DALPA's negotiations.

Like it or not these are facts, and until we all sit down
"AND STAY" at the table and put ego's aside this airline will remain strapped.

 

[DarnNearaJet]

Why would DAL managment agree to an expensive staple and how much negotiating capital do you think the DAL MEC would spend on the idea?

 

[Treme]

Brilliant.

Staple and watch the bottom 2000 Comair/ASA pilots get furloughed. Sorry. No deal. They are entitled to the same ALPA protection as mainline pilots are.

 

[Skyboss]

It's called Dynamic scheduling, and yes, they would destroy the competition. Then you can name your pay.

BTW... Dynamic gate utilization systems will be out next year. Flight scheduling capability isn't far behind.

 

[blzr]

That is a great Idea, one which has been discussed on many a long flight with some of our captains. Put everything from a B1900-B767 on the same ticket and let the computer decide based on loads what AC goes where. One day a CRJ could handle a load from CVG to ROA, and on another a 737 may be needed for the same rout. Personally, I think it is a good idea and one which could help in the battle against LCC's.

Do I think the old grey pilots would go for it? No. We would be infringing on their territory.

Alot of us bid on Overnights, I don't, but some do. The older guys would say..." This isn't Execjet, we want to know where we will be on a given day so I can get the story strait between my wife and my Girlfriend"

Most don't realize that this will be the future, like it or not, the bean counters will dictate how we work. Get used to it.

 

[Skyboss]

If you took a planning class at Riddle, this company should look familiar:

http://www.preston.net/frontpage.htm

 

[DDpaysoff]

Actually I am a riddle alum. Class '00. Had a job 6 days later. Unfortunately, I chose the wrong one and had to start over. I am familiar, the problem is the most of the people flying around today don't see the big picture. ALL they see is if this happens will I still get Sunday nights off or SLC overnights on the 16th. I will let DAL pay for my type, then I will go to an airline that is doing it right. It sure isn't DAL, so I could give a shi.t what Dalpa thinks about me, but I do want their guys off the street and I will give them my best while I am here. It is frustrating to see what DAL mgmt. and DALPA have done to this company. I don't want to work that much so all I can do is sit in my right seat watch the non-conformance and wait for my type. They can have that mgmt position. Until, somebody with some sense stands up, I don't plan on being part of this team when I retire.

If you have the power to choose, choose wisely!!

 

[46Driver]

DD,
Why do the Delta guys (or anybody else) look out for their military buddies? There is a line in Shakespeare's Henry V (Act IV, Scene III), "We few, we happy few, we band of brothers, for he to-day that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother." That is why the military guys look out for their brothers.

 

[Skyboss]

How does it go...

Once a DL employee, always a DL employee. It runs through the rank and file, save management

 

[DDpaysoff]

Military and business are two different things. You work for the shareholders now. Sorry if you don't see it that way. Just the fact that you are willing to negotiate for someone who is not even on the property and may even choose to go to one of your COMPETITORS shows me what you think about ASA/CMR pilots. We have had plenty of military guys hired over here who are happy to fly RJ's and have a job w/ a good company. I don't have a problem at all w/ you wanting to hire your military buddies I can imagine what you went through together and I thank you for serving our great country.
But to "protect" them from having to fly rrj's, well, if that is the way you see it that is rediculous.

 

[comrcap]

I'm with Treme, Keep the Staple. We don't want it.

 

[acaTerry]

Why do the Delta guys (or anybody else) look out for their military buddies? There is a line in Shakespeare's Henry V (Act IV, Scene III), "We few, we happy few, we band of brothers, for he to-day that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother." That is why the military guys look out for their brothers.

Sure beats the backstabbing culture of the Corporate America types. We can see the back stabbing mentality already showing its head in this once brotherly profession.
Semper Fi Bro.

 

[NYRANGERS]

I'm with Treme, Keep the Staple. We don't want it.

100% in agreement.

 

[cooter]

However, with some type of "brand" scope protection that only DAL,ASA,CMR pilots would do the flying, that wouldn't necessarily be true. The other DCI carriers would no longer compete with the brand pilots. Good scope....

Brilliant.

Staple and watch the bottom 2000 Comair/ASA pilots get furloughed. Sorry. No deal. They are entitled to the same ALPA protection as mainline pilots are.

 

[General Lee]

If we were ever to agree to a staple, it would be after all of the furloughs got back on line--so no one else would be furloughed. But, I don't see Delta management going for it, and I don't see senior Comair/ASA pilots going for it because they already believe they should be in the left seat of mainline aircraft. They might have had a chance to do it pre-9-11, but the Comair/ASA pilots wanted to be integrated instead of the staple. Not gonna happen.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[CatYaaak]

DD,
Why do the Delta guys (or anybody else) look out for their military buddies? There is a line in Shakespeare's Henry V (Act IV, Scene III), "We few, we happy few, we band of brothers, for he to-day that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother." That is why the military guys look out for their brothers.

Not to get picky, but after the Battle of Agincourt it's not like King Henry went back to England and bequeathed land and title upon the peasants and men-at-arms (his brothers) who unto these words he spaketh.

And don't go quoting Henry V unless you can rightfully claim to have stacked up the French dead at least as high as he did. He rocked.

 

[~~~^~~~]

General Lee - That is not true and you know it. Have you, or your MEC, ever found one scrap of paper that illustrates how ASA & Comair wanted to be merged with DAL? The answer is no.

ALPA's merger and fragmentation policy leaves it up a process administered by the National Union to determine integration issues. ASA and Comair pilots, through their representatives, their respective MEC's, they did not put forward any type of a merger, integration, or staple, plan.

The Delta MEC takes liberties with the truth more than any other ALPA body I am familiar with. If Fred Reid backed me into a corner like he did your Communications guy, Mike Pinho (sp? on August 1st in Peachtree City) I would have been terribly embarrassed. Instead when caught lying to the pilots your MEC simply says they are reflecting the mood of the Delta pilots and whether or not it is truthful does not matter - perception matters.

What about reality?

 

[~~~^~~~]

However, with some type of "brand" scope protection that only DAL,ASA,CMR pilots would do the flying, that wouldn't necessarily be true. The other DCI carriers would no longer compete with the brand pilots. Good scope....

I want that and am willing to accept short term pain to get there. We would need seat protections though.

 

[46Driver]

CatYaack,
OK, I'm not English but I am a Marine so I will quote Chesty Puller when the millions of Chinese came screaming across the Yalu River. "We're surrounded - that simplifies the problem. Now I can shoot in every direction." And yes, Chesty did pile up hordes of bodies....

 

[MetroSheriff]

Good Ol' Chesty

CatYaack,
OK, I'm not English but I am a Marine so I will quote Chesty Puller when the millions of Chinese came screaming across the Yalu River. We're surrounded - that simplifies the problem. Now I can shoot in every direction. And yes, Chesty did pile up hordes of bodies....

Ahhh, good 'ol Chesty

Chesty Puller was a fightin' Marine
A fightin' Marine was he.
He called for his horse,
He called for his pipe,
And he called for his Privates three.

Beers, beers, beers for my Privates.
Brave men are we.

The army is fair but they can' compare
To the Marines Corps Infantry.


Chesty Puller was a fightin' Marine
AA fightin' Marine was he.
He called for his horse,
He called for his pipe,
And he called for his Corporals three.

Hup two, hup two to my Corporals
Beers, beers, beers for my Privates.
Brave men are we.

The army is fair but they can' compare
To the Marines Corps Infantry.


Chesty Puller was a fightin' Marine
AA fightin' Marine was he.
He called for his horse,
He called for his pipe,
And he called for his Corporals three.

Aye, aye sir to my Sergeants.
Hup two, hup two to my Corporals
Beers, beers, beers for my Privates.
Brave men are we.

The army is fair but they can' compare
To the Marines Corps Infantry.

OORAH!!!