Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

DAL: 800 to 1,000 of its most senior pilots may retire

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

densoo

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 2, 2004
Posts
2,054
Delta Takes Steps to Avert Mass Retirement of Pilots

By MARY WILLIAMS WALSH and JEFF BAILEY
Published: June 17, 2006
New York Times

… The pilots' pension plan, meanwhile, could have caused "a true operational catastrophe," one company lawyer said in bankruptcy court. "Hundreds of thousands of passengers would be stranded all over the world, many for an extended period," the lawyer for Delta, Marshall S. Huebner, said last May in United States Bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of New York.

The pension plan could do this, Mr. Huebner said, because it gave pilots the right to take half of their total lifetime benefit in a lump sum.

Lump sums have become popular in recent years, but they can pose a grave danger to a pension plan at a company that is in financial trouble. In such cases, retirement-age employees start to worry that if their plan fails, they will lose benefits. So to protect themselves, they tend to start retiring en masse. It is like a bank run.

Such a run occurred at Delta last year, when more than 1,100 pilots took early retirement in just a few months. They stripped $873 million out of the plan.

By law, a plan may not pay lump sums unless it has liquid assets worth at least three times the previous year's payouts. When the rush of retiring pilots took Delta's plan below that level, it went into a liquidity shortfall and the lump sum payments stopped, much to the anguish of pilots who did not get a chance to take theirs.

After the hemorrhaging stopped, the investments in the pilots' plan began to recover. Mr. Huebner, the lawyer, said in his bankruptcy court appearance that the plan might be out of the liquidity shortfall when Delta's actuary measured it on July 1. If that happened, he said, Delta would have no choice but to open the floodgates to lump sum payments again.

"If the pilot plan actually comes out of liquidity shortfall, Delta will likely be devastated," Mr. Huebner said. The airline has calculated that 800 to 1,000 of its most senior pilots would immediately retire. More than 900 have earned lump sums of more than $500,000, and some have earned more than $1 million.

That would suck another $560 million out of the pension plan. But the blow to Delta would be even worse, Mr. Huebner said. Its pilots over age 50 have the right to retire with only a few moments' notice.

If hundreds of pilots retired on July 1, Mr. Huebner said, 46 of Delta's 51 biggest aircraft would be grounded and up to 60 percent of its international operations would have to shut down. "The negative financial impact to Delta of this occurrence would be in the billions of dollars," in addition to the pension plan's losses, Mr. Huebner said.
 
Maybe management shouldn't take there big retirements also. If DAL doesn't want this to happen, then agree not to terminate the pilot pension plan. Seems like a pretty easy fix to me. If DAL doesn't want to commit to doing what's right, then the airline gets what it has coming to it.
 
buckeyes95 said:
Maybe management shouldn't take there big retirements also. If DAL doesn't want this to happen, then agree not to terminate the pilot pension plan. Seems like a pretty easy fix to me. If DAL doesn't want to commit to doing what's right, then the airline gets what it has coming to it.

Amen. To underfund a pension plan is criminal. Welcome to the airline version of Enron. How about a movie about the criminal CEOs of the history of the airlines : Eastern, United, US Air, Swissair, Delta
 
I guess, Air Tran is going to be getting some more applicants. I know of a couple of guys that took the lump sum and now fly at Da Tranny... (and the like it)
 
If they lose 800-1000 pilots then all the fourloughed guys will be back plus hiring should begin. I don't want to be selfish but a lot ofguys like me see it as an opportunity to move up into the right seat at the regionals. The guys at the regional see it as a move up to the big leagues (Delta). It is only natural progression.
 
instructordude said:
If they lose 800-1000 pilots then all the fourloughed guys will be back plus hiring should begin. .


there will be no more early retirements. The company is filing to terminate the pension. The day they file, all lump sum payments are stopped. No one is going to retire early and not get the lump.

Would be nice, but won't happen.
 
Forget the MD88 as a Captain, I could have gotten the 767! DAMN!

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
General Lee said:
Forget the MD88 as a Captain, I could have gotten the 767! dang!

Bye Bye--General Lee

General/Michael - what are the rumors on the crew bus about recalls? Only 64 or maybe more?
 
dtfl said:
General/Michael - what are the rumors on the crew bus about recalls? Only 64 or maybe more?

I heard more, but that depends on getting used aircraft for good lease rates. They would be growth aircraft since everyone currently on the 737-200s etc have already been displaced off of them. We are currently looking at some used birds that would be used to backfill our domestic flying when more of the 767s go to INTL. 76 seat RJs won't be able to do it.

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
They EARNED their pension. They have the right to the money. I don't give a rat's arse how much financial pressure that would put on the company. Everybody has been underfunding the plans for years. This is what you get when you rob peter to pay paul.

Gup
 
General Lee said:
I heard more, but that depends on getting used aircraft for good lease rates.
Bye Bye--General Lee

Good lease rates for a bankruptcy airline... that's a good one, HA, HA, HA!!!
 
Little Bubba said:
Good lease rates for a bankruptcy airline... that's a good one, HA, HA, HA!!!
In case you havent kept up with current events Delta got GREAT lease rates on the MD88s. I asked a serious question about DELTA....and we get the peanut gallery chiming in. Lovely. Now i could say something about 5 airbus' being sold..but I wont. Ahem.

Some of us are actually wanting our flying jobs back.
 
Last edited:
Little Bubba said:
Good lease rates for a bankruptcy airline... that's a good one, HA, HA, HA!!!

Hey genius, we got our MD88s from $285,000 per month to $85,000 a month. And the planes we are looking at are coming off of other leases, and they aren't new planes. Our current 737-200 lease rates are $20,000 a month, but they are really old and need to go.

Why are you getting rid of your 5 A320s? Can't afford to do the D checks? Will you do that with all of your A320s?

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
GuppyWN said:
They EARNED their pension. They have the right to the money. I don't give a rat's arse how much financial pressure that would put on the company. Everybody has been underfunding the plans for years. This is what you get when you rob peter to pay paul.
GuppyWN said:
I couldn't agree with you more. The Corporation known as Delta Air Lines will continue on, but their moral obligations and 50 + years of promises go by the wayside. Corporate responsibility for these bottom feeding scum was never even a second thought.
 
They EARNED their pension. They have the right to the money. I don't give a rat's arse how much financial pressure that would put on the company. Everybody has been underfunding the plans for years. This is what you get when you rob peter to pay paul.

Gup


Gup,

Bravo sir. You get it. The DAL pilots should have walked out of the (ram down), negotiations over this. I realize they are bankrupt but sooner or later you have to stand up for yourself and/or the profession.
 
dtfl said:
what are the rumors on the crew bus about recalls? Only 64 or maybe more?
They have been recalling crew bus drivers at the rate 1.2 a month.
 
conman said:
They EARNED their pension. They have the right to the money. I don't give a rat's arse how much financial pressure that would put on the company. Everybody has been underfunding the plans for years. This is what you get when you rob peter to pay paul.

Gup


Gup,

Bravo sir. You get it. The DAL pilots should have walked out of the (ram down), negotiations over this. I realize they are bankrupt but sooner or later you have to stand up for yourself and/or the profession.


Actually, all ALPA pilots should have walked out the minute fellow ALPA pilots pensions were terminated. USAir or United should have gotten the ball rolling. Delta pilots were late to the party.
 
This is genius!

DAL the company realize that more guys may leave with a lump sum, potentailly stranding some planes, so instead of making the guys want to stay, they force them to, by terminating the plan. Gotta hand it to those boys, they sure threw DALPA a curve with this one!
 
Dizel8 said:
This is genius!

DAL the company realize that more guys may leave with a lump sum, potentailly stranding some planes, so instead of making the guys want to stay, they force them to, by terminating the plan. Gotta hand it to those boys, they sure threw DALPA a curve with this one!

It has nothing to do with 1000 potential retirements, it's all about the money and the opportunity that US Bankruptcy Law provides for terminating the accrued pension benefits of employees. Yeah it stinks, but that's US bankruptcy law. DALPA was hardly thrown a curve ball, DALPA, unlike others, recognized early on that our DB was toast.
 
800Dog said:
Actually, all ALPA pilots should have walked out the minute fellow ALPA pilots pensions were terminated. USAir or United should have gotten the ball rolling. Delta pilots were late to the party.

And you see nothing illegal about what you are suggesting? Should an RJ captain, without a pension participate in an illegal job action to protect a DAL pilots pension? How about the non-ALPA pilots at AA, SWA, AAI, JBLU, UPS etc., should they also walk out?
 
And you see nothing illegal about what you are suggesting? Should an RJ captain, without a pension participate in an illegal job action to protect a DAL pilots pension? How about the non-ALPA pilots at AA, SWA, AAI, JBLU, UPS etc., should they also walk out?

exactly, Our money is = our money...ie 401k, profit sharing.
 
Last edited:
InstructorDUMBASS

"natural progression" does NOT include bogus laws, corrupt politicians and executives and bk laws allowing rape and pillage. I am sure you will have a "prosperous" career with Mesa if you make it all the way there.
 
FDJ2 said:
And you see nothing illegal about what you are suggesting? Should an RJ captain, without a pension participate in an illegal job action to protect a DAL pilots pension? How about the non-ALPA pilots at AA, SWA, AAI, JBLU, UPS etc., should they also walk out?


It has more to do with protecting the profession and less to do with Delta pilot pensions. The fact that people such as yourself fail to realize this is a major reason why the professsion has taken a turn for the worse.
 
800Dog said:
It has more to do with protecting the profession and less to do with Delta pilot pensions. The fact that people such as yourself fail to realize this is a major reason why the professsion has taken a turn for the worse.

Not all pilots have DB, yet you insist that all pilots, including non-ALPA pilots I assume since no real nationwide strike would be effective without the participation of 1000s of non ALPA pilots, go on an illegal job action to protect the pensions of a minority of pilots. Now when you come out of la la land, give me a real world solution, not pie in the sky dreams.

Here's a good step in the right direction, increased participation in ALPA-PAC participation to over 50% of all ALPA pilots, giving professional pilots a louder voice in the corridors of Washington. So long as ALPA-PAC contributions only come from less than 20% of ALPA pilots, we deserve what we get from Washington, the bankruptcy laws, open skies etc.
 
Skybus said:
InstructorDUMBASS

"natural progression" does NOT include bogus laws, corrupt politicians and executives and bk laws allowing rape and pillage. I am sure you will have a "prosperous" career with Mesa if you make it all the way there.

It's a tough world out there. It is evolution of the industry no doubt about it and if it benefits the young guys like me then so be it. I have no interest in a bottom feeder like Mesa though. I'm looking at starting with another regional this late summer.
 
FDJ2 said:
Not all pilots have DB, yet you insist that all pilots, including non-ALPA pilots I assume since no real nationwide strike would be effective without the participation of 1000s of non ALPA pilots, go on an illegal job action to protect the pensions of a minority of pilots. Now when you come out of la la land, give me a real world solution, not pie in the sky dreams.

Show me where I stated non-ALPA pilots should walk. I disagree with your statement that a job action with only ALPA pilots would not be effective. How many pilots in ALPA. You might want to rethink this one. Until guys like you get your head out of the sand, the slide will continue.


Here's a good step in the right direction, increased participation in ALPA-PAC participation to over 50% of all ALPA pilots, giving professional pilots a louder voice in the corridors of Washington. So long as ALPA-PAC contributions only come from less than 20% of ALPA pilots, we deserve what we get from Washington, the bankruptcy laws, open skies etc.

I already participate. Not happy with ALPA as ALPA is more concerned with cash flow and protecting its major contingency fund rather than drawing a line in the sand and not budging. I assume you were a yes voter to LOA 51. Remember, nothing has been taken away from the Delta pilots. It has all been given away.
 

Latest resources

Back
Top Bottom