Current sectional chart?

[BoilerUP]

A friend called me up last week to ask if he legally needed to have a current sectional chart for a VFR flight, and I told him "yes". He preceeded to disagree, asking what FAR requires a current sectional chart. I said I didn't know of any specific FAR, but if ramp checked, would you bet your ticket on an $8.48 chart?

I asked a DPE this question, and while he said he couldn't quote an FAR that specifically mentioned it, the FAA could get you with 91.13 among other things if you were caught flying without one.

The FARs say you must be aware of all information pertinent to your flight. You probably wouldn't need a current sectional if you are doing pattern work or flying in the local practice area of your airport, but certainly for a cross-country flight (even along a familiar route), I say you need a current sectional chart.

What do you guys and gals think of this? I personally wouldn't bet my ticket on it...

 

[midlifeflyer]

There's no specific FAR that requires a basic Part 91 flight to carry =any= charts (There is a Part 91 FAR that requires Large and Turbine Powered Multiengine Airplanes to carry them (see 91.503).

But, if there is any kind of problem involving an airspace violation or information that appears on a chart, you can bet that the FAA will claim a violation of 91.103 (all available information) or 91.13 (reckless operation).

For example, there is an NTSB case from 1993 in which a VFR pilot took off from Norwood MA without VFR charts and busted the Boston Class B airspace. The pilot tried to argue that he knew he was near the Class B and repeatedly tried to contact ATC, so the FAA should go easy on him. No dice. From the NTSB opinion upholding a 90-day suspension:

quote:
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We agree with the law judge that this was egregious conduct for any pilot. Taking off without necessary familiarization and without proper charts into an obviously congested airspace such as the Boston area, and continuing the flight after failing to obtain a clearance obviously justified a finding of carelessness, at a minimum. Even an assumption that further FAA tapes would show that respondent made multiple attempts to reach ATC would not lessen the seriousness of his actions.
-------------------

I can't find it, but I recall another one where a pilot flew in an area with outdated charts. Unluckily for him, the Class C on his chart had recently changed into Class B.

So the "real" rule is simple: no FAR requires you to have current charts on board, unless you have a problem. If you do, it better not be because of something that is shown on the chart.

A side issue. The GA Inspector manual that FAA inspectors use for ramp checks tells the inspector to check for current charts. I'd bet that some inspectors =think= it's a violation if you don't have them.

 

[IFlyGC]

Under Pt. 91 there is no reg that SPECIFICALLY states you must carry a current VFR chart. There are a ton of regs however that you could violate by not carrying one.

It's just like Class G - 1sm/Clear of Clouds....it's legal, but it's not always the smartest thing to do.

~Fly~

 

[avbug]

Au contraire.

The FAA specifically took the stand several years ago that having an outdated chart on board is better than not having a chart at all; for VFR operations under Part 91, no requirement exists to have a current chart.

91.13 will not be applied to failure to carry a current chart. The closest regulation approximating that is 91.103, which requires that priior to beginning a flight, a pilot will become familiar with all information regarding that flight. However, no requirement exists in spirit or form which requires that aeronautical charts be current.

The FAA has officially stated this to be the view of the Administrator. It's better to have a current chart, but better an outdated one than no chart at all.

 

[CDVdriver]

Better yet..

I require my students to carry a chart and current AFD on all flights local or cross-country.(Who knows where they'll end up after my training) We live in a class D where the FAA has a habit of showing up and checking things.
No need to rock the boat I say.......

 

[huncowboy]

Ok so far.

So how about having a current chart for the FAA ride? For example, tomorrow I will have my commercial multi ride. The little list in the PTS asks for current charts, and AFD etc. So since the ride also includes 2 ILS approaches, today I had to buy the charts just for that 2 ILS, because they have expired on the 15th and we will not even file IFR but fly the flight under VFR. So what if I would show up with old plates? Ohhh and comes to my mind another question. What if you have a current approach plate (one that has not been changed since ages) but you do not have the whole binder? Early on I was told "you need to buy the binder so that you have the little front page with the date on"... sounds like BS to me. Especially if I think of a portion in the AIM (sorry I can't quote it... not a guru yet ) that says something like this "the pilot should at least have a verbal description of the procedure in order to fly it" or was that only for Departures?

Apperently I am through a whoel bunch of Jepp binds, add one to that today... and I still only fly the same 5-10 approaches over and over again. Probably most of them have not even changed a single dot. I know the one that I will fly tomorrow has not changed since the last release for sure because I just checked the effective dates on it.

Thanks for any answers.

 

[midlifeflyer]

So how about having a current chart for the FAA ride? For example, tomorrow I will have my commercial multi ride. The little list in the PTS asks for current charts, and AFD etc.

Then you need to have the current charts to qualify for passing the test, just like you need a view limiting device and other pieces of equipment that you won't find in any regulations that cover the test.

What if you have a current approach plate (one that has not been changed since ages) but you do not have the whole binder? Early on I was told "you need to buy the binder so that you have the little front page with the date on"... sounds like BS to me.

It is. Assuming you need a current chart to begin with, so long as a chart =is= the current chart, the current chart is the current chart. (intentionally redundant).

Of course, if we're talking about a practical test, you'd better be able to show the examiner how you =know= it's the current chart.

 

[goaliemn]

So how about having a current chart for the FAA ride? For example, tomorrow I will have my commercial multi ride. The little list in the PTS asks for current charts, and AFD etc. So since the ride also includes 2 ILS approaches, today I had to buy the charts just for that 2 ILS, because they have expired on the 15th and we will not even file IFR but fly the flight under VFR. So what if I would show up with old plates? Ohhh and comes to my mind another question. What if you have a current approach plate (one that has not been changed since ages) but you do not have the whole binder? Early on I was told "you need to buy the binder so that you have the little front page with the date on"... sounds like BS to me. Especially if I think of a portion in the AIM (sorry I can't quote it... not a guru yet ) that says something like this "the pilot should at least have a verbal description of the procedure in order to fly it" or was that only for Departures?

Something like that, I'd check http://www.myairplane.com/ They have free PDF's of the current approach charts. Just grab the ones you need. They are full sized scans so they should be legal.

 

[avbug]

Why would you download one or two charts, instead of spending the three or four bucks to buy the regional set that you need?

What do you do when you're given a proceedure that you haven't downloaded? When you need to divert? When the runway is closed due to wild nudist nazi streakers, or a groundlooped citabria?

Just buy the charts; they're cheap, and you ought to have them anyway. There's really no reason, nor excuse, not to have them. Additionally, information contained with each chart volume (or with the set in Jepps) is important to have access to in flight, and for preflight planning. Just buy the set and don't be so cheap that you go downloading one or two charts of the internet to scrape by. If you're that broke or that hard up for charts, stay on the ground and wait until you can do it right.

 

[huncowboy]

No reason to not have NOAA, but the Jepp was $27 or more, which I would have loved to skipp it, if only there would have been a legal way to do so. I was going to ask the DE today but after the ride I forgot.